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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Trade secrets.

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  #61  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:39 AM
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AKMac AKMac is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

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Originally Posted by oneredpanther View Post
I am endlessly impressed with people who seemingly manage to retouch professionally using just one or two tools. It's like building a fully-functioning 747 using lego while wearing gloves.

I fear that egoistic puritanism occasionally blocks a retoucher's receptiveness to new streamlining and efficiency improvements. Some retouchers are doing things like they did in Photoshop 5 because that's how they've been doing things since Photoshop 5, irrespective of the vast advancements made since then.

Retouching to me is the prototypical "black box" problem. You have an input and an output. Whatever transformations occur within that black box are utterly irrelevant. Pixels in, pixels out. The only considerations are how long it takes and what it costs.

One could retouch with a mouse and curves alone, and I don't doubt there are sadists who derive an immense chest-swelling pleasure from such a thing. There are still luddites who build websites in Notepad. But we choose not to because there are superior workflows.

We're either making good output or making bad output. How we do it is irrelevent.
This is exactly what I wanted to say. I agree 100% except that the 747 analogy is too extreme - Gloves? Come on!.
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  #62  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:27 AM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneredpanther View Post
I am endlessly impressed with people who seemingly manage to retouch professionally using just one or two tools. It's like building a fully-functioning 747 using lego while wearing gloves.

I fear that egoistic puritanism occasionally blocks a retoucher's receptiveness to new streamlining and efficiency improvements. Some retouchers are doing things like they did in Photoshop 5 because that's how they did things since Photoshop 5, irrespective of the vast advancements made since then.

...

We're either making good output or making bad output. How we do it is irrelevent.
Then why are you complaining about other people's approaches? Who cares how they do what they do? I can assure you sight-unseen that their clients certainly don't care how they do such great work. Neither do I. Neither should you.

Instead of bashing other peoples' photography (great or not) and retouching methods (old or new) and ruining things for other readers, why don't you try being more constructive and try focusing on providing useful input, especially when posting into other people's threads who are asking legitimate questions?

It's clear from your website that you have considerable retouching skill. But there's no need to denigrate other people because they don't do things the way we do. In my personal experience, repeatedly bashing other people rarely shows that the ego problem lies with one's targets.

I think you have a lot to share if you choose to, but there is no need to tear other people down in the process. That helps no one. But being constructive and putting forth helpful and better ideas in the process, that helps everyone.

Last edited by RobertAsh; 01-23-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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  #63  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:48 AM
RobertGarcia RobertGarcia is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

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Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
This is exactly what I wanted to say. I agree 100% except that the 747 analogy is too extreme - Gloves? Come on!.
Guys, this thread was about trade secrets and the biggest one of them all is that it is a lot simpler than what at least I thought. This image was done with simple d&b/clone/a tiny of healing and comping no freaky separation or stuff like that (just ball busting don't take too serious).
http://passaporteparaabeleza.blogspo...ene-pro-v.html

Once you figure out how to use the tools it gets way easier there is no need to be a math teacher to do good work.

Don't get me wrong those ways are great for those who weren't able to get good results otherwise but why should anyone relearn if they never had a problem in the first place inclusive the old way is faster.

Last edited by RobertGarcia; 01-23-2013 at 10:01 AM.
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  #64  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:15 AM
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Re: Trade secrets.

I can't work you out Robert. You are insisting on sticking with what was cutting edge five years ago. This sounds very mixed up to me. And you seem to equate natural enthusiasm for the latest techniques with some sort of juvenile behaviour to be looked down upon. When did you stop extending your technical repertoire? And how long do you think you will enjoy this sense of satisfaction in knowing all that is worth knowing, before you wake up to the realisation that you are way behind the curve?
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  #65  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:26 AM
RobertGarcia RobertGarcia is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

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Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
I can't work you out Robert. You are insisting on sticking with what was cutting edge five years ago. This sounds very mixed up to me. And you seem to equate natural enthusiasm for the latest techniques with some sort of juvenile behaviour to be looked down upon. When did you stop extending your technical repertoire? And how long do you think you will enjoy this sense of satisfaction in knowing all that is worth knowing, before you wake up to the realisation that you are way behind the curve?
No my brother you are behind. I tried the recent way and like I said I never had a problem with the old way so why bother. I tried the freq thing it's not necessary and its not used in places I have worked and still work in. I have even asked the head retouchers around town. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter if you use the sponge tool to get there as long as you get there. Please don't try to push your crutches on me I don't need assistance with those methods it's great for you and you do a fine job with it so congratulations with that. Believe me if I find a better way I will make it part of my workflow I really don't want to spend needless amounts of time doing something I could do be breezing through some other way, think about that.
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  #66  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
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Re: Trade secrets.

You seem very content to be where you are Robert, but a lot of people feel the need to try new things, and explore new possibilities. They already know how to use the tools you use. It's just that they are moving on and exploring new possibilities - not just half-heartedly trying something a few times before saying, "Told you so - the old way was better.", but actually learning how to exploit the possibilities presented by new approaches. You must surely recognise that this is a healthy thing, and not a sign of some sort of inadequacy.
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  #67  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:32 AM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
I can't work you out Robert. You are insisting on sticking with what was cutting edge five years ago. This sounds very mixed up to me. And you seem to equate natural enthusiasm for the latest techniques with some sort of juvenile behaviour to be looked down upon. When did you stop extending your technical repertoire? And how long do you think you will enjoy this sense of satisfaction in knowing all that is worth knowing, before you wake up to the realisation that you are way behind the curve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMac View Post
You seem very content to be where you are Robert, but a lot of people feel the need to try new things, and explore new possibilities. They already know how to use the tools you use. It's just that they are moving on and exploring new possibilities - not just half-heartedly trying something a few times before saying, "Told you so - the old way was better.", but actually learning how to exploit the possibilities presented by new approaches. You must surely recognise that this is a healthy thing, and not a sign of some sort of inadequacy.
AKMac,

You should re-read my note more carefully. That is not what I said or implied. Not even close.

All I said was -- it doesn't matter what method people use to get good results. They can use old methods, new methods, CS2, CS6, photoshop, some other program, it doesn't matter.

What should not be happening here is denigrating people because they use a different method than we do. Old, new, red white or blue. Whatever method works for them, if they get great results, power to them. It's not up to anyone here to dictate the methods someone else uses to get excellent results.

Hopefully that clarifies things, and sincere apologies if I didn't express that clearly in my previous post.
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  #68  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:39 AM
RobertGarcia RobertGarcia is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

If there is a new way or something better I definitely will give it a try and adopt and I do from time to time. I stay exploring new ways to do things I am a perpetual student constantly trying things out. However, when it comes down to money/time I got to what gives the best possible result. Hey, if you have something to teach I am willing to give it a shot. f.y.i. I am not against your way no need to defend yourself.
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  #69  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:01 PM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

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Originally Posted by RobertGarcia View Post
If there is a new way or something better I definitely will give it a try and adopt and I do from time to time. I stay exploring new ways to do things I am a perpetual student constantly trying things out. However, when it comes down to money/time I got to what gives the best possible result. Hey, if you have something to teach I am willing to give it a shot. f.y.i. I am not against your way no need to defend yourself.
Absolutely. My thoughts exactly. Very well said
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  #70  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:04 PM
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AKMac AKMac is offline
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Re: Trade secrets.

There are two Roberts. I should have made it clear that my comments were both in response to Robert Garcia, not Robert Ash.
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