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Changing gamut creates horrible reds

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  #21  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:23 PM
matthiassebas matthiassebas is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

@Tony W: Thanks a lot of your help and for the screenshots. I have tested my setting and I can't find anything wrong with them. Wrt your points:

1. Yes, I am only using Photoshop and I dont care about the Creative Suite.
2. Given the settings as in the screenshots and using the Edit-In (cmd-E) command in LR I end up in PS in ProPhoto with colours as in LR. Hence the RGB values are as expected.
3. I dont get strange colours in this step.
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  #22  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:48 PM
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
All he has to do is just set PS to Preserve in color settings.

Plus LR has two possible ways to pass it's data onto Photoshop. Export (which can be any color space) or Open In Photoshop which has it's own settings for color space. It is possible neither are set for ProPhoto. In any case, if Photoshop were to just honor what is being fed, everting should be OK.
Andrew I know you are going to be correct on this so just to be clear

1. When you say all he has to do is set PS to Preserve in the colour settings and as these are already set to Preserve embedded Profile are you suggesting changing this to Convert to working RGB?

2. I am aware that in LR Export settings can be any colour space required but felt that it would be easier to track what is happening by exporting the file in the same colour space that Photoshop is set i.e currently sRGB or change to Prophoto for both. Is this a bad idea?
As to LR Open in Photoshop (Edit in Photoshop for PC) having its own settings for colour space isn't this controlled by the settings made for external editing in this case Prophoto as set by the OP?
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2013, 05:57 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
1. When you say all he has to do is set PS to Preserve in the colour settings and as these are already set to Preserve embedded Profile are you suggesting changing this to Convert to working RGB?
No! Convert to Profile isn't a good idea. Worse is OFF policy. Whatever LR is spitting out, it's got an embedded profile and if Preserve is on, Photoshop should just honor that. So settings among the suite don't necessarily have to be in sync although it's not a bad idea. More importantly is that Photoshop recognize the embedded profile and further, leave it alone and honor it. IF LR spits out ProPhoto RGB but Photoshop is set for sRGB with Preserve (or vise versa), all should be fine.
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  #24  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:09 PM
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Tony W Tony W is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthiassebas View Post
...2. Given the settings as in the screenshots and using the Edit-In (cmd-E) command in LR I end up in PS in ProPhoto with colours as in LR. Hence the RGB values are as expected.
To be clear you have changed your original settings in PS from sRGB now to Prophoto and when opening you do not get any dialogue box warning of mismatch?
Quote:
3. I dont get strange colours in this step.
Good as long as the imported file matches between both apps all sounds to be as it should.

Now I think you should revisit the saving of images for web. One quick and usually foolproof way in PS is to use Save to Web from the file menu. Make sure you select JPEG and tick the two boxes marked Embed Profile and Convert to sRGB and select Save to your chosen location.

Now try loading this image into your web browser of choice and also try others that are available to you - fingers crossed that this helps to resolve the issues you have been experiencing.
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2013, 06:49 PM
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

Thanks for the confirmation Andrew. My concern is still with the display profile being used as the image colour profile my assumption is that as the screenshots posted here have embedded Photography profile that it is likely this profile is being used for Web images as well, which may account for the issues. Of course it may be that I am chasing a red herring!
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  #26  
Old 05-06-2013, 03:11 AM
matthiassebas matthiassebas is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

@Tony W: I tried the 'Save As' as well as the 'Save for Web' dialog and I converted the encoding from ProPhoto to sRBG with the 'Convert to Dialog' under edit or in the 'Save for Web' dialog. The effect is in all cases the same.
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  #27  
Old 05-06-2013, 03:24 AM
matthiassebas matthiassebas is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

@andrewrodney: Could you please confirm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
... in Safari, all untagged documents use your display profile to assume the color space of the data...
If a photo is tagged with a display profile and then send to this display no correction happens as it is already tagged with this profile and is it then correct to say that an untagged photo appears on the calibrated output device as if the output device wasn't calibrated?

Thanks for clarifying that for me.
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  #28  
Old 05-06-2013, 08:46 AM
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthiassebas View Post
@Tony W: I tried the 'Save As' as well as the 'Save for Web' dialog and I converted the encoding from ProPhoto to sRBG with the 'Convert to Dialog' under edit or in the 'Save for Web' dialog. The effect is in all cases the same.
I am really sorry to hear that you have not seen any improvement. I had of course hoped that getting LR and PS synchronised would lead images to match and then making the required conversion to sRGB for web would have pretty much cured the colour cast issues plus using the sRGB profile instead of a display profile.

So it seems now that your LR to PS images match exactly on your monitor as would be expected and the conversion from Prophoto to sRGB again works as it should without any noticeable changes to the image while in PS.

TBH at this point I am a little lost what to do next particularly as I do not have any useful experience of Mac OS or Safari and therefore am reluctant to make any suggestions as they may lead you further down the proverbial garden path.

I am sure that if anyone can throw some light on this then Andrew will be able to advise and suggest a course of action.

FWIW some last thoughts:

Is it possible that your display profile is a little out from optimum or that your system is using the wrong display profile?

Obvious I know but it should be that if the monitor is profiled correctly, and our RGB Tiff or JPEG is tagged with an embedded profile that other colour managed programs like PS, LR, Safari etc should display images correctly.

I came across this article after doing a search for red cast with Safari http://www.gballard.net/photoshop/srgb_wide_gamut.html
According to the author the solution for this is to use Firefox is the only browser to solve the problems 100%.
Of course just because it is published on the net does not make it true and I for one do not know if the author is correct in his assumptions. The authors solution to buy a 'standard gamut' monitor seems to be a rather extreme. There must be thousands of Mac users and a guess would suggest that many must be using wide gamut monitors and Safari so I find it a little difficult to accept that this is an Apple/Safari issue that can only be solved by using another browser

Perhaps worth considering a trial of Firefox to rule out the issues addressed by the above?
If you do go this route just a warning that with older versions of Firefox you had to turn on color management in the application -I suspect this to no longer be the case with the newest version but forewarned etc.
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  #29  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:53 AM
ksparticus ksparticus is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

I also came across an interesting read on the MM site.
Scroll down to the bottom and see Color on the Web.
It's a few years old, so not sure if it still apply's today.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=260367

Edit: I pulled up the above link on my Iphone and the colored squares that correspond to the names are off...but show fine on my desktop. I'm using Safari
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2013, 06:22 AM
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Tony W Tony W is offline
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Re: Changing gamut creates horrible reds

One more thought on this issue.

If I understand correctly you are seeing the problem in conversion of your own Canon camera files to web only when web viewing in Safari?

Maybe a long shot but have you looked at using a test image file from an outside source?
It may help to properly isolate the source of your issues - then again it may not!

What I am thinking of is the Pixl test image http://www.pixl.dk/download/
which is a tiff version for Photoshop which has embedded notes of how the image should look on screen. The file is in Adobe RGB so I would suggest that when you bring into Photoshop you first make sure that you use that colour space. Do not make any changes to the image to correct for colour contrast etc.

Examine the image and the notes then Save for web or Save as with an embedded sRGB profile. Now see how it appears in Safari
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