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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

arranging layers

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  #11  
Old 07-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Caravaggio Caravaggio is offline
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Re: arranging layers

Well I meant by "masking out" creating a mask on the merged copy layer and painting on it with black so that you could go back to the original DB layer and work on it again if you want to.

I am not exactly sure why you need to merge the cleanup and dodge and burn layers? Maybe you don't have to since you seem not to want to loose your original DB layer. You would probably only need to merge them if you are doing free transformations later on in your workflow after you have already cloned and dodged and burned.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2013, 03:28 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: arranging layers

I like to structure my layers thusly, from the bottom up:

Pixels (original image, cloning, painting, etc)
Tonal moves (contrast density)
Color

Putting tone moves on top of color can mess up your color.

SL D&B can be both tonal and color, so it get tricky where to put it, but I generally consider it a tonal move, and would keep it below, say, HSL or selective color moves.

Non Destructive means always being able to go back to the original, which means working on a deleteble or maskable layer. But no workflow will ever be so pure that some work will never have to be "erased" and redone.

So, if you've done a considerable amount of work on an image and then decide you need to transform something, you have a couple of options. You can turn off your tone+color layers and make a stamp of just the pixel area that needs fixing (say, a hand) transform that area, delete that area of your D&B layer (paint w/ 128 gray) and redo that area of D&B on that original D&B layer. Or, you can include the D&B in your stamp visible, then do your transform, then start a new D&B layer above, and of course turn your other tone and color layers back on.

The point is that you can limit the size of your stamp to the area that needs fixing. You also know that were ever you are in the game you can always copy an area of the original above your pixel layers, but below your color tone layers, and redo whatever warping, cloning, D&B, etc, that needs to be done to it but with your general tone and color moves still in place above it.

I don't know if that's helpful. The point is to limit your stamp to the area you are working on, possibly include your D&B in the stamp, but if you ultimately need to redo the D&B on some small area of the photo, so be it. Do what you gotta do.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2013, 03:36 PM
looby looby is offline
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Re: arranging layers

usually I like to go back and forth, I never do anything in one go.
I just had a problem again, but this time with the high-pass, when soft light layer came on, there were some scripples in there?

Actually the DB and the high pass are always messing up things...

Should I not do any structure changes after DB? Is that the only way to avoid the mess-ups?
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  #14  
Old 07-07-2013, 03:47 PM
looby looby is offline
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Re: arranging layers

Thank you Flashtones, very helpful stuff.. I guess I thought there was not limits to the flexibility..I will have to pay more attention to the order I do things.
Where would you put the high-pass layer?
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  #15  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:00 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: arranging layers

Quote:
Originally Posted by looby View Post
Where would you put the high-pass layer?
if it's a high radius contrast move I'd consider it a tonal move and put it above pixels (obviously) and below color. If it's a low radius sharpening move I'd save it for the end and put it at the top of the stack, because sharpening can be size/output related, and you want to be able to turn it off and redo as needed.

But keep in mind HP is based on your pixels. If you're going to do additional pixel work(clone,transform/liquify, etc.) you'll need to redo it. No big deal, just another example of something that sometimes needs to be redone, however pure your workflow.
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  #16  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:24 PM
looby looby is offline
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Re: arranging layers

"If it's a low radius sharpening move I'd save it for the end and put it at the top of the stack"
As simple as it may seem.. this is where I get "stuck", I want to add f.eks. a high pass at the top without merging anything, is that not possible?
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  #17  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:34 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: arranging layers

what are you going to run high pass on, if not pixels? Where will you get the pixels from?

I wonder if you mightn't be confusing a stamp with a merge. A merge is subtractive, it flattens down your pixels and adjustments into one, without of trace left of the individual layers that comprised it. A stamp is additive, it creates a flattened additional layer above all the pixel and adjustment layers below. So a merge tosses your individual layers, a stamp just duplicates it into a single composite layer above the individual layers.

Thus, you can run a filter or such on your stamped layer, then mask it so that the filter shows only the stamp/composite layer, and reveals the original non filtered layers below, etc.
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  #18  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:49 PM
looby looby is offline
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Re: arranging layers

Sounds like I am interested in the stamp? How do you do that?
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  #19  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:51 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: arranging layers

you already know. cmd+opt+shift+E
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  #20  
Old 07-07-2013, 04:55 PM
looby looby is offline
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Re: arranging layers

So once I have done DB, I am not able to simply go back and do structural changes right?
So it's best to finish all the moves before carrying on (liquify/free transform)
I prefer to leave it until the end.. I guess it is a bad idea..
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