RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Any books on learning CGI photography?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 07-20-2014, 05:22 AM
insmac insmac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 190
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

I would also look into the tutorials regarding compositing key visuals (posters, ad campaigns, etc) or check out available psds at www.tenbyfotolia.com. You can deduce a lot from a total file breakdown, specific color casts, adjustment layers, how it all fits together.

Having said that, in a lot of cases composites are a mix of photo and CGI imagery. Specifically, with non-organic elements when it is downwards impossible to obtain a satisfying product shot with a desired lighting, angle and perspective.
Just have a look here:
http://www.happyfinish.com/services/cgi-images/
And you may get a better idea.

I have yet to find a comprehensive book on the subject, most of these available on the market have little or nothing to do with current aesthetics, they're just like beginners photoshop tutorials: cheesy visual effects for dummies.
Reply With Quote top
  #12  
Old 07-20-2014, 02:39 PM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by insmac View Post
I would also look into the tutorials regarding compositing key visuals (posters, ad campaigns, etc) or check out available psds at www.tenbyfotolia.com. You can deduce a lot from a total file breakdown, specific color casts, adjustment layers, how it all fits together.

Having said that, in a lot of cases composites are a mix of photo and CGI imagery. Specifically, with non-organic elements when it is downwards impossible to obtain a satisfying product shot with a desired lighting, angle and perspective.
Just have a look here:
http://www.happyfinish.com/services/cgi-images/
And you may get a better idea.

I have yet to find a comprehensive book on the subject, most of these available on the market have little or nothing to do with current aesthetics, they're just like beginners photoshop tutorials: cheesy visual effects for dummies.
The first link is really neat. On the second some of those are just so far beyond the scope of a simple tutorial. Even if you did a start to finish, the complexity would result in someone primarily learning to copy steps rather than a true understanding of how the concept was developed and worked out. If you look at the olay photo on the purple background, someone had to design the look of that background. You have certain bands of color, with slightly more abstract outlines in certain places. I would probably start off with the bars, then add the fadeoffs and other details from there. You have some very specific shading on the bottle. Parts are darkened along key areas, and the label is perfectly masked to be just the right color.

The liquid splash is a tutorial (or book) in itself. Fluid simulations are not always well behaved, and you need to have some idea of how to handle shading and lighting without creating unnecessary dependencies between the two. It's possible to learn all of these things. I just don't think you'll find a book that goes into the specific subset of tools needed for this area. Even if you did the author would really have their hands tied for space and probably wouldn't do anything meaningful with fluid solvers given the complex nature of the topic and extreme variation between various solvers (nucleus solver, Glu, whatever realflow uses, blender's options, all different).
Reply With Quote top
  #13  
Old 07-20-2014, 04:45 PM
insmac insmac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 190
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klev View Post
The first link is really neat. On the second some of those are just so far beyond the scope of a simple tutorial. Even if you did a start to finish, the complexity would result in someone primarily learning to copy steps rather than a true understanding of how the concept was developed and worked out. If you look at the olay photo on the purple background, someone had to design the look of that background. You have certain bands of color, with slightly more abstract outlines in certain places. I would probably start off with the bars, then add the fadeoffs and other details from there. You have some very specific shading on the bottle. Parts are darkened along key areas, and the label is perfectly masked to be just the right color.

The liquid splash is a tutorial (or book) in itself. Fluid simulations are not always well behaved, and you need to have some idea of how to handle shading and lighting without creating unnecessary dependencies between the two. It's possible to learn all of these things. I just don't think you'll find a book that goes into the specific subset of tools needed for this area. Even if you did the author would really have their hands tied for space and probably wouldn't do anything meaningful with fluid solvers given the complex nature of the topic and extreme variation between various solvers (nucleus solver, Glu, whatever realflow uses, blender's options, all different).
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I have just linked the Happy Finish portfolio since they kind of do "everything" ranging from usual photoshop matte painting to complex CGI composites.

I am always amazed why there are virtually no breakdowns from retouchuing houses whilst every top notch video post facility uploads a VFX breakdown for every major job they do.
Reply With Quote top
  #14  
Old 07-20-2014, 09:43 PM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by insmac View Post
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I have just linked the Happy Finish portfolio since they kind of do "everything" ranging from usual photoshop matte painting to complex CGI composites.

I am always amazed why there are virtually no breakdowns from retouchuing houses whilst every top notch video post facility uploads a VFX breakdown for every major job they do.

Some retouching shops do post breakdowns. I looked through happy finish's projects. Considering they're working predominantly with still image budgets and deadlines, I suspect they have established quite a bit in the way of starting points and best practices with some of that stuff. All of those things are relative to the software packages used though. In terms of things like fluids, it's also relative to the solver used. Software packages of that scope have bugs. If you come across one and develop a workaround, you document it. Assuming they aren't writing their own shaders from scratch, they would have to be aware of certain details, such as how the shaders used apply energy conservation if applicable. There are other things. I don't want to go into them as the post will get way too long.

The breakdown thing may be an issue of client permission. Even the companies that do post them don't post them on every job.
Reply With Quote top
  #15  
Old 07-21-2014, 09:38 AM
beefhitler beefhitler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 39
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

Quote:
The first link is really neat. On the second some of those are just so far beyond the scope of a simple tutorial. Even if you did a start to finish, the complexity would result in someone primarily learning to copy steps rather than a true understanding of how the concept was developed and worked out. If you look at the olay photo on the purple background, someone had to design the look of that background. You have certain bands of color, with slightly more abstract outlines in certain places. I would probably start off with the bars, then add the fadeoffs and other details from there. You have some very specific shading on the bottle. Parts are darkened along key areas, and the label is perfectly masked to be just the right color.

This is exactly what I wanted to talk about. I really am asking for the basics where the foundation for this should be based on. For example, when I learn to drive a car, I definitely can't learn driving on a race track. I would need to learn how to change gears first.

PSDs help. They really do help. And TEN by Fotolia is an excellent website. I am going through some of the PSDs as we speak. And I love them. I love going through the PSDs not just because I can see what's going on but because they make me think. Can I really come to a point where I will be working on a PSD like that myself? Can I really add a finish touch like that? Can I not leave clues for my mistakes? I can immerse myself in these PSDs for hours.

But that's not all.

I want to reach to that level. I want to be able to show off my work myself one day.

I need a starting point.
Reply With Quote top
  #16  
Old 07-21-2014, 08:17 PM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

I would start with something much less ambitious, because you want to actually be able to complete a project with pleasing results. Looking at and analyzing reference material is helpful. Some basic illustration skill is very helpful when you get into complex comps. There are just many elements of perspective, shading, and getting things to feel like they are in fact under the same lighting even when they weren't shot at the same time. What you're likely to learn looking through psds depends on their quality. It helps to be well organized with proper labeling and good structuring of the work. If I have to use the brush tool for any kind of masking rather than a clipping path, I tend to trace the outline rather than attempt to fill in the area. This way there aren't any bumps along the outline. Common sense best practices like that will come to you over time and by looking at the work of others.

I would caution you against getting overwhelmed by the quality of the work of others. As I mentioned the art direction involved in a project like this is pretty heavy. It's not just the how to put it together. Someone had to come up with the ideas and initial design decisions.
Reply With Quote top
  #17  
Old 07-22-2014, 12:40 AM
Aladdin's Avatar
Aladdin Aladdin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ/NY
Posts: 444
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

No CGI - It is just photoshop compositing! google the phrase.

In a nutshell, it is about how to merge various elements together in harmonious way.

Sometime you might have a vision of what the end product should look like, sometime, you just play around and see where it would take you. You might get inspired by a picture that you like, there is no starting point, no end point, it is an idea that evolves.
Reply With Quote top
  #18  
Old 07-29-2014, 10:59 PM
Isedo Isedo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 185
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

You need to practice a lot.
The starting point is to accept that there are no hidden secrets. There are no secret tools.

Most of the images you see in the TenCollection by Fotolia (my company is a partner of Fotolia Ten Collection and I know many of the artist personally form the Collection) use basic tools.

You need to learn and practice: composition, compositing, color grading, painting.
Do as much images as you can. One by one you will get better and better. There is no a short cut to this. You need to do that.

Bring a piece of paper, think about an idea, draw a rough sketch. Than look for stock images. Do it with Photoshop.

Try again. ;-) Believe me.
Reply With Quote top
  #19  
Old 07-30-2014, 02:12 AM
Aladdin's Avatar
Aladdin Aladdin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ/NY
Posts: 444
Re: Any books on learning CGI photography?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isedo View Post
You need to practice a lot.
The starting point is to accept that there are no hidden secrets. There are no secret tools.

Most of the images you see in the TenCollection by Fotolia (my company is a partner of Fotolia Ten Collection and I know many of the artist personally form the Collection) use basic tools.

You need to learn and practice: composition, compositing, color grading, painting.
Do as much images as you can. One by one you will get better and better. There is no a short cut to this. You need to do that.

Bring a piece of paper, think about an idea, draw a rough sketch. Than look for stock images. Do it with Photoshop.

Try again. ;-) Believe me.
Amen my brother...
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Photography, Retouching and CGI service Dariusz Classifieds 0 09-24-2013 09:28 AM
Real Estate Photography Retoucher DSutherland Classifieds 0 04-12-2013 12:13 PM
Jun/Jul 2012 Contest - Food Photography T Paul Contests 18 08-04-2012 12:20 PM
CGI Retouching - How to do!? rl-retouch Computer Generated Images 12 06-11-2012 10:54 AM
Digital Photography Tutorial & Adobe Photoshop Training “The Making Of” Last Sacrifice Dienekes By ProPhotoInsights.net plantphoto RP Tutorials 0 07-30-2009 12:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved