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which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

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  #11  
Old 09-04-2014, 01:24 PM
marcelzuurmond marcelzuurmond is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

For more control I use the 2 curves layers method with usually a hue/saturation layer clipped onto the dodge layer to adjust color shifts. I turn all pen sensitivity off when I'm d/b'ing and use 100% opacity and 3-5% flow (because I hate lifting the pen hehe)
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2014, 02:45 PM
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Aladdin Aladdin is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

In addition to what David mentioned, once done, you may apply a Gaussian blur filter to the 50% gray layer, apply a dash of blur to ease the transition from Burn to un-touched skin. just a bit or you might lose it. Of course this depends on how big your image is.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2014, 08:13 PM
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ray12 ray12 is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

I like the 50% gray with softlight to keep the saturation from building up in "overlay blend mode".

In addition to using the black and white brushes to lighten and darken...I also sometimes choose a real flesh color on the layer to make corrections as well. Since the gray is dropped out....its the darkness or brightness or the color that is left behind in the image...I will use a color... if im on strong blemishes... or on blotches to further help them to match the surrounding area.

If you bring up or down the luminosity...it will change the color of the pixels...it will turn the pore into a shade or a tone of the same color...but all that is really needed is to add a bit of brightness for example to make dark skin from looking muddy and ruddy just by adding light to the color...thats why I enjoy D+B so much...AND when I have a really tough area...I can also add some color correction to the process by using a colored brush too on the 50% 128 value layer.

Its D+B with a color correction twist when necessary

Ray
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2014, 12:04 AM
kkamin kkamin is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

I like ray12's answer. Helpful, thanks!
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2014, 07:35 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

My preferred method is to use Curves on a copy of the background layer inside of a nested Smart Object which has been converted to LAB color within the RGB image. With this process you get super fine control of luminosity with no shifts in color and usually no need to make any color adjustments after D or B.
Cheers, Murray
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  #16  
Old 10-07-2014, 01:02 AM
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Aladdin Aladdin is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

@mistermonday: I have been using the 2 curves technique for so long in the RGB space, I did not see any color shift or desaturation. I gave it a go tonight in LAB space, I did not see any difference, unless, my eyes are failing me.

I would agree that LAB will be good choice for other D&B methods, however, the 2 curve method does not benefit from LAB, this is my personal conclusion, I could be wrong....as usual

Unless we are talking about two different things, my 2 curves are a darken curve and lighten curve, where the masks are inverted to hide all, then using a soft brush to "reveal" the effect, once done drawing the "lines" with the brush, I play with the mask settings to soften the effect around the edges by adjusting the "Feather" value, which, in my case and file size, range from 25 to 40 pxl of feathering.
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

In RGB, as you increase or decrease the lumosity, you will accordingly change the saturation and color because of the way RGB works. The greater the change in luminosity on a D or B curve the greater will be the shifts. This effect has been a long complaint of retouchers using the Curves method. The typical remedies are 1.) to add a blank layer in Color or other blend mode and recolor to adjust for the changes induced by the curve. And 2.) to add a Hue/Sat adj layer and copying the mask from the D or B curve and using that mask to replace the mask on the Hue/Sat adj layer and then adjusting the Sat and Hue controls to adjust those areas which have undergone the sat / color changes. Neither of these remedies works very well.
Below is a link to a file to demonstrate the difference between a D curve in LAB vs RGB. The luminosity changes are large so as to demonstrate the concept of how color is changed as luminosity changes in the various color spaces.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/92...+B_Compare.zip

This compare file is not intended to illustrate the phenomenon of Saturation & Color shifts with D&B curves. There are a great many examples you can see if you do a search. In fact I recall a number of threads here at RetouchPro where professional beauty retoucher Natalia Taffarel demonstrated the problem and presented her solution using the Hue Sat adj layer.

Cheers, Murray



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
@mistermonday: I have been using the 2 curves technique for so long in the RGB space, I did not see any color shift or desaturation. I gave it a go tonight in LAB space, I did not see any difference, unless, my eyes are failing me.

I would agree that LAB will be good choice for other D&B methods, however, the 2 curve method does not benefit from LAB, this is my personal conclusion, I could be wrong....as usual

Unless we are talking about two different things, my 2 curves are a darken curve and lighten curve, where the masks are inverted to hide all, then using a soft brush to "reveal" the effect, once done drawing the "lines" with the brush, I play with the mask settings to soften the effect around the edges by adjusting the "Feather" value, which, in my case and file size, range from 25 to 40 pxl of feathering.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2014, 08:52 PM
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Aladdin Aladdin is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

Damn! This explains few anomalies I have been through. I did not know they were directly related to the DB curve in RGB.

Very interesting to say the least. Thanks Murray, highly appreciated. And thanks for your effort too.

Back to the drawing board...
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  #19  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:02 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
Damn! This explains few anomalies I have been through. I did not know they were directly related to the DB curve in RGB.

Very interesting to say the least. Thanks Murray, highly appreciated. And thanks for your effort too.

Back to the drawing board...
That's partly because the perception of hue is not independent of brightness. It's also an artifact of a non-linear adjustment. You can try using LAB if you like, but it has a lot of downsides that differ from those in RGB.

I'll also mention that curves don't behave the way you think they do. They don't necessarily adjust everything equally. In older versions I may have suggested scaling all channels in channel mixer by the same percentage, but Adobe reworked the brightness/contrast algorithm to be pretty close to that. I know that is the case on CS6 and later. If you're unsure, just test the results between the two. That is one of the most stable ways to do such a thing. If you had a linearized RGB color space, that would probably give you the results that you actually desire.
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  #20  
Old 10-10-2014, 02:26 PM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: which is your fav advanced burn and dodge tec?

I use the 50% gray overlay (softlight) layer techinque. Yet, I use it in 2 layers; one for dodge and one for burn.

I am wondering if any of you use the color range settings in the mask tab to set some kind of a guide lines for D&B especially in full face / close up portrait.

Thanks
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