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can i paint with Split Frequency

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  #1  
Old 09-11-2014, 10:16 AM
mantra's Avatar
mantra mantra is offline
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Question can i paint with Split Frequency

hi

about Split Frequency i use it for Healing and cloning ,but can i use it to paint ?
i mean with paint brush alt to sample a color and paint without (ruin) ruining details and textures

thanks
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  #2  
Old 09-11-2014, 11:18 AM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Yes, on a bandpass. That would be a new layer in between high and low. Or you can just paint on the low, but then you're screwed if you mess up.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:10 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I bet you I know the origination of this stuff better than any of you. It comes from a number of iterative edge finding techniques. The problem in using it in this way is that photoshop isn't well suited to editing on decompositions.

First off just dividing it that way won't protect your textures. If you don't believe me, just go onto your low frequency layer and make a significant curve or levels adjustment. You'll notice that it still affects the appearance of details. It's even worse with gaussian methods in the way photoshop is structured due to the amount of ringing produced by those filters. You can see this after applying gaussian blur across midtone values of different color compositions. You'll notice a bit of darkening between them rather than a border color that displays a mix of the two colors. this is because it's not perfect and can partly invert the colors if pushed too far.

Here's a good example of decomposition research. This stuff has better uses. I don't really see the appeal to painting like this. If I was going to do it, I would use something more like Krita, which is slightly better suited to that workflow.

Another method of achieving this would be an inverted convolution transformation. It still produces ringing though.

I thought about testing a linearized image with a Mitchell-Netravali filter, but I would use matlab or mathematica rather than photoshop.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:24 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

It can be useful and not noticeable if used to even out big radiuses here and there, obviously you cannot replace DNB by using this. And if you paint black or something ridic like that, your texture is going to look all wrong on top.
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:30 AM
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Aladdin Aladdin is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

I experimented with it a lot, I was hoping for the results you are seeking, too bad, no, it affects texture no matter what you do. I thought I was slick! NO! either Photoshop is smarter or dumper than me!

I was told to "clip" the bandpass layer to the lowpass one, however, it did not make any difference, unless i was heavy handed, I use about 8% strength in the brush, still.
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Old 09-12-2014, 04:15 AM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

You just don't understand the limitations. I even stamp at less then 100% opacity on both lower and upper layers in some instances, sometimes I paint up to 100 percent on bandpass layer...

Think is, for the next couple of hundred years computers won't know of "texture". It's just calculating pixels, that have been invert blurred on a set radius. Interaction between pixels on the above and below layer is what you're affecting when you paint on a bandpass.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:20 AM
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mantra mantra is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Quote:
Originally Posted by klev View Post
I bet you I know the origination of this stuff better than any of you. It comes from a number of iterative edge finding techniques. The problem in using it in this way is that photoshop isn't well suited to editing on decompositions.

FMitchell-Netravali filter, but I would use matlab or mathematica rather than photoshop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
I experimented with it a lot, I was hoping for the results you are seeking, too bad, no, it affects texture no matter what you do. I thought I was slick! NO! either Photoshop is smarter or dumper than me!

I was told to "clip" the bandpass layer to the lowpass one, however, it did not make any difference, unless i was heavy handed, I use about 8% strength in the brush, still.
hi
thanks a lot for the answers
slipt frequency is really much used and appreciated , at least what i see around the net

but so , when should i use it ?
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  #8  
Old 09-12-2014, 12:12 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Be creative, explore what it does for you. It's not math, there is no singular recipe.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:05 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantra View Post
hi

about Split Frequency i use it for Healing and cloning ,but can i use it to paint ?
i mean with paint brush alt to sample a color and paint without (ruin) ruining details and textures

thanks

When you use the conventional FS technique, you are isolating detail but if you examine the layers carefully you will see that there is lots of color on the HF layer. The formula of a convention frequency split Orig = HF + LF holds together until you start making changes to either layer. The changes to the pixels on either layer alter the formula. Sometimes the visual result looks better but other times it does not.

What you need to do is perform an asymmetric frequency separation which completely separates texture from color. Then you can paint to your heart's content in normal mode anywhere on the low frequency layer or non destructively on a blank layer set to Normal Blend mode in between the LF and HF layers. The texture will not be affected. Furthermore you can copy some texture from one area on the HF layer and paste it anywhere else of the HF layer and the color will not be affected .

You can play with the image at the link below to verify. PLEASE NOTE, the image is a .PSD and this example is has been prepared in LAB color mode so you will need to have Photoshop (any version) to open it and you can not convert this image to RGB. http://www.mediafire.com/download/k7...FS_Demo_MM.psd
Cheers, Murray
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  #10  
Old 09-13-2014, 12:29 AM
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mantra mantra is offline
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Thumbs up Re: can i paint with Split Frequency

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermonday View Post

What you need to do is perform an asymmetric frequency separation which completely separates texture from color. Then you can paint to your heart's content in normal mode anywhere on the low frequency layer or non destructively on a blank layer set to Normal Blend mode in between the LF and HF layers. The texture will not be affected. Furthermore you can copy some texture from one area on the HF layer and paste it anywhere else of the HF layer and the color will not be affected .
Murray
hi
i download the psd and i played
but how do i perform an asymmetric frequency separation ?
can i do it in rgb mode?
is there a step be stop to do it?
thanks
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