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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

is it better to start retouch with a flat image?

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  #31  
Old 04-10-2015, 04:16 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Oh, no it was "this is the real advice", see the thumbs up?
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  #32  
Old 04-11-2015, 04:25 AM
captain_j_hook captain_j_hook is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Oh thanks you all guys. This made a big difference to me. Thanks for dedicating me your time and thanks for the suggestions! I'll read that book! I was actually going to open a new thread about color correction / management and fine art printing books. I'll do it anyway. : O I am so happy I had the opportunity to put into question what I've read and how I work. For now this is my workflow, at some point I hope I'll have two hours to test the same adjustments in ACR and LR and PS with LAB so that I can have my own opinion. I always feel ashamed of doing contrasts and color in raw engines. haha.
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  #33  
Old 04-11-2015, 11:07 AM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
According to Thomas Knoll:

While developing Camera Raw, I experimented with a pure luminance curve (as Simon suggests). However, based on my testing results, I rejected this algoirthm since it produced results that were most often visually worse looking that the tone curve algorithm actually used by Camera Raw (which is a special hue-preserving curve, NOT three indepent curves as Simon incorrectly assumed). The saturation effects that Simon considers a defect is actually something that most users actually want.
It would be interesting to have a possibility to get hands on that first version. Personally I do not like oversaturated and bright colors coming from ACR/Lightroom and I am always exporting slightly desaturated image.
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  #34  
Old 04-11-2015, 11:14 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativeretouch View Post
It would be interesting to have a possibility to get hands on that first version.
No such version existed. Thomas dismissed it’s effect outright.
Considering the millions of images that have been run through ACR since Photoshop 7, plus Lightroom, the few who suggest the decision Thomas made was incorrect are tiny, usually all from the “we must edit in Lab” camp.
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  #35  
Old 04-11-2015, 12:45 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

I think this is going into why so much that you are forgetting that any work needs to do only two things:

look good enough to sell
sell

If your clients are happy with results, and you are happy with your pay, who cares have you stared with flat conversion, or contrasty conversion, or no image at all.
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  #36  
Old 04-11-2015, 01:34 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
I think this is going into why so much that you are forgetting that any work needs to do only two things:

look good enough to sell
sell

If your clients are happy with results, and you are happy with your pay, who cares have you stared with flat conversion, or contrasty conversion, or no image at all.
Exactly =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney;
No such version existed. Thomas dismissed it’s effect outright.
Considering the millions of images that have been run through ACR since Photoshop 7, plus Lightroom, the few who suggest the decision Thomas made was incorrect are tiny, usually all from the “we must edit in Lab” camp.
I am not saying Thomas was incorrect. I did not find any RAW convertor which produces colors I can say I am happy with.

Regarding the LAB camp - only few of us are smart enough to take it further and create they own color spaces and tools:

"I shoot and edit my photos. I often wanted to get a certain color in the photo, but the Lightroom and Photoshop tools do not allow me to do that. In my head there was a model of color: I imagined how I would have changed color by curving color space but there were no tools that would allow me to do that.

I then decided to make a program that would allow me to operate with color as I imagined it in my head. That is how I came up with the idea to have a grid, based on the LAB color model. Later I realized that the LAB color model is not the best option for working with photos, and I came up with my own color models. I also added in a lot of other tools, which I did not have, and they all become unique. Oleg Sharonov - http://3dlutcreator.com"
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  #37  
Old 04-11-2015, 03:00 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

I think that LUTs should be an essential part of photoshop. But, methods to achieve the very same thing are already present, it's just that they are far less sophisticated/convenient.

It all comes down to the fact that we can't produce color as nature can, and have come up with a work around, and hence all the trouble, and I don't think it'll change soon.

One thing I really crave is a more precise and less clunky way to use gradient map tool.
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  #38  
Old 04-11-2015, 04:01 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
It all comes down to the fact that we can't produce color as nature can, and have come up with a work around, and hence all the trouble, and I don't think it'll change soon.
It's not practical to store them that way. To be "perfect" you would in theory have to ignore psycho-optic effects to juxtaposition and other influences, while producing reflected or emitted light that matches the target in both intensity and composition. Color spaces in use today use a much weaker condition and just study that one when it comes to problems of metamerism.

As for LUTs, you need to have some meaningful description of source colors, a meaningful destination, and a greater dynamic range than the intended final destination to achieve strong results. At least that is currently the case in practice. PS can actually load LUTs.
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  #39  
Old 04-11-2015, 05:54 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

Well, if they could be that good, they would be a human. Can't expect anyone to all of a sudden be God and translate Gods design onto technology that is essentially extremely simple.

It can load them, agreed, but there is no working on them with a preview, and in my workflow that is everything. Also, I agree, things tend to break up very quickly with LUTs, simply because of the nature of the caputured image.
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  #40  
Old 04-12-2015, 05:48 AM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: is it better to start retouch with a flat imag

LUT is just a tool like any other tool. With its advantages and disadvantages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudym View Post
Its up to you what you want to do with your image or were you want to start and end. You are the creator.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rudymcfarlane/
BTW. nice work Rudy... I like your colors. And very well said.
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