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Log vs standard profile

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  #1  
Old 05-10-2015, 01:05 PM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Log vs standard profile

Hi,

I see that in Camera Raw and LR there are only rec709 kind of profiles with general contrast over the image. Is there a log profile (look up table fro 5d raw) to get a flat/low saturated image?

I understand you do retouch to a dng file with a rec709 profile (standard, faithful), correct?

Thanks
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:49 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

Make a new profile with everything set to default and make it your default profile, so that every imported image has no adjustments applied to it?

Also, no, there are no profiles that coincide with Canon "in camera" profiles, that's why there is it's proprietary software that applies canon-specific styles.
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Old 05-10-2015, 01:52 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

Those are intended for video workflows. There's no reason to build those kinds of profiles for rec709, so I don't think you'll find them. The standard, faithful, etc. profiles are things such as Adobe's standard processing vs as close as possible to what the manufacturer applies via in camera processing on jpeg exports.

I want to point out that using an input profile to dictate contrast is borders on ridiculous. Adobe makes raw adjustments in a standardized profile that is significantly different from the input profile. Typically though the input profile should provide a description of hardware response with respect to a profile connection space and nothing else.
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Old 05-10-2015, 03:56 PM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

I have found this: http://www.vision-color.com/visionlog/

It says "custom LOG profile - extract entire dynamic range from sensor".

Yes, it is meant for video purpose, but this thing of "extract entire dynamic" appeals me a lot ad maybe it can worthwhile giving it a try for still photos.

To me it seems to make more sense to apply a s-curve on a log raw rather then a standard or faithfull profiled one.
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:42 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
To me it seems to make more sense to apply a s-curve on a log raw rather then a standard or faithfull profiled one.
Standard and faithful are not meaningful terms. It's just a matter of what Adobe thinks represents the data vs what the camera manufacturer thinks it should be. Neither is well explained or defined though.

Applying an s-curve to this is a terrible idea. Perhaps once you try it you'll understand from the the results. Logarithmic and linear profiles are better for color correction if the tools are set up to accommodate them. This is not the case in photoshop. You have appropriate linear (well gamma 1.0) tools available in 32 bit mode in photoshop. Other than that they're designed to work with gamma corrected data, and even ignoring the waste of bits, an s-curve with respect to that basis doesn't resemble a mapping from a logarithmic basis to a gamma 2.2 one. You're looking for massive shadow problems with your current strategy. You might run into highlight problems too, but either way you're just trying to crush shadows and highlights after the fact to make them all fit into a narrower dynamic range. There are strategies for dynamic range compression, but none of them take this approach. You would also have to output to 32 bits per channel (not change to 32 bit mode, but actually be able to export that way without clipping at intermediate stages) to even implement that.

edit: I guess the important thing to take away from this is that you need to do followup editing in a tool that can properly work with this data (such as Resolve). If you want to work with it in photoshop, you would export from that.

Last edited by klev; 05-10-2015 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:15 PM
rudym rudym is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rudymc...posted-public/

@Klev
I use visionlog workflow. can you see any massive shadow problems or highlight problems?.

I use that workflow because i suck in color correction.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:36 PM
rudym rudym is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rudymc...posted-public/

Workflow:
- raw file to DNG
- In DNG profile editor convert to log- gamma profile
- In ACR load the log-gamma profile
- Open file in photoshop
- Cineon Conversion LUT layer
- at the bottom of the cineon conversion layer load a CIN LUT
- at the top of these layers a Filmbot_Color
- Manny Sharpen
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:50 PM
rudym rudym is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

Yes, there is a log profile to get a flat/low saturated image.
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Old 05-10-2015, 08:04 PM
rudym rudym is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

above workflow after you make your image flat.
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  #10  
Old 05-10-2015, 08:31 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Log vs standard profile

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudym View Post
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rudymc...posted-public/

Workflow:
- raw file to DNG
- In DNG profile editor convert to log- gamma profile
- In ACR load the log-gamma profile
- Open file in photoshop
- Cineon Conversion LUT layer
- at the bottom of the cineon conversion layer load a CIN LUT
- at the top of these layers a Filmbot_Color

- Manny Sharpen
You really should pay attention to what I stated, but you mentioned something extremely interesting. You had non-standard steps that made this feasible. If you go back and read my comment again, it was in response to the take this into photoshop and apply s-curve, although your results still exceed what I would have expected. They're very nice. The other method would have left some detail unclamped, then just compressed shadows and highlights to achieve suitable midtones, effectively losing a lot of that detail anyway. It's quite a bit different.

I guess I did mention photoshop in 8 or 16 bit mode in general, but I hadn't encountered this tool. Note the reason for resolve would have been the same thing. Make adjustments, add log->gamma corrected node, and export.
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