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soft proofing settings help

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  #11  
Old 06-04-2015, 11:14 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantra View Post
Hi
1)
for color image , which settings should i keep enable ?
black point compensation ON
simulate paper color ON
simulate black ink ON
It depends <g>.
When you are editing an image with a soft proof on and hoping to make it appear as close to the final print you'll view next to the display, you want the simulation on for both. If you're comparing this to a print, you want to be in full screen mode, no UI elements shown which will not undergo the simulation and affect your perception of the soft proof.
See:
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200409_rodneycm.pdf
http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200411_rodneycm.pdf

Black Point Compensation should always be on. It either fixes an issue with the mapping of black from source to destination OR it doesn't do anything at all because the mapping is indeed correct.

The same is true for B&W.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2015, 11:36 AM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

No, soft proofing is necessary, but it is only necessary if you're getting paid for it.
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  #13  
Old 06-06-2015, 06:19 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by mantra View Post
hi
good advise!
i tried to calibrate with x-rite @ 100 in the color munki preferences (so i had to decrease the brightness of my monitor) and i make a print , really better!

so soft proofing is useless, isn't it?

thanks Klev
I don't think the soft proofing tools available in photoshop are really ideal, but it isn't useless. Things like emulating paper base could be done to a lesser degree by setting your monitor up to match that paper as closely as possible, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal. It would be setting up your display for a single task by intentionally constraining its range in whatever way possible (might also introduce undesirable side effects that compress its range at the extremes).

I don't see soft proofing as useless at all. If you can get a good idea of how the print should look before you print it out, you will waste less ink, paper, and time.
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  #14  
Old 06-06-2015, 06:22 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
Things like emulating paper base could be done to a lesser degree by setting your monitor up to match that paper as closely as possible, but it certainly wouldn't be ideal. It would be setting up your display for a single task by intentionally constraining its range in whatever way possible (might also introduce undesirable side effects that compress its range at the extremes).
With the right product, that's exactly what one does. Enter SpectraView software driving an NEC SpectraView reference display system. Set contrast ratio to better simulate paper white, not max white or black the display can produce, build as many as you need for as many paper's you use. Switch on the fly in the software which updates the calibration in the panel and loads the ICC profile for that condition.
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2015, 03:04 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
With the right product, that's exactly what one does.
I suppose so, but I usually avoid advocating specific tools as an answer to this kind of question. I think the OP is still trying to understand the problem. Essentially the rgb color model considers quantities of light with respect to wavelength. Paper and pigments don't emit light. They reflect light that falls on them. The cmm then has to make some assumptions about the characteristics of that light to achieve a match or something close to a match.

Photoshop's version is a little more limited on both resources and (presumably) information about the light source than the one you mentioned, so it may not be as useful.

In both cases the goal is to pre-visualize how something should appear when printed. Recent inkjet generations don't have severe metamerism problems, so if it looks good under that lighting, The purpose of that match is to match context. For reference, if you view it later under fluorescent lighting, everything else in that environment will also be viewed under that same lighting. It should then appear (mostly) as intended. Viewing it under fluorescent lighting against a monitor that is balanced in a completely different manner would throw off that context, making it difficult to render judgement.

Note that this is a pretty high level overview, and you need to test any system to make sure it actually works as intended.
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2015, 04:07 PM
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
I suppose so, but I usually avoid advocating specific tools as an answer to this kind of question. I think the OP is still trying to understand the problem.
I'm telling the OP how to solve it. With a specific product designed for the task.
Quote:
Essentially the rgb color model considers quantities of light with respect to wavelength. Paper and pigments don't emit light. They reflect light that falls on them. The cmm then has to make some assumptions about the characteristics of that light to achieve a match or something close to a match.
If the text is to suggest that an emissive display and a reflective print will never match 100%, I'll agree but that's not a reason to avoid soft proofing! I'll take a 95% match over an 85% match any day. Ultimately the proof is in the proof or print. When properly setup, with good profiles (both output and display), with good equipment and proper calibration of the display, and one doesn't fit all needs, the match is very close and useful.
Quote:
Photoshop's version is a little more limited on both resources and (presumably) information about the light source than the one you mentioned, so it may not be as useful.
That's why it's key to have a display and calibration routine that can provide a visual match using it's tools and processes, and not rely solely on the profiles.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2015, 04:54 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
I'm telling the OP how to solve it. With a specific product designed for the task.
I get that. My concern is that (without being condescending to the OP) I'm not sure he fully understands the problem itself to a sufficient level to draw realistic expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
If the text is to suggest that an emissive display and a reflective print will never match 100%, I'll agree but that's not a reason to avoid soft proofing! I'll take a 95% match over an 85% match any day. Ultimately the proof is in the proof or print. When properly setup, with good profiles (both output and display), with good equipment and proper calibration of the display, and one doesn't fit all needs, the match is very close and useful.
My point was that RGB quantifies things in terms of light regardless of whether it's emitted from or returned by a reflective surface. The light source also needs to be controlled for a good match. The portion you quoted was added to point out constraints that really limit a software only solution.

The rest of it was out of concern. I'm not sure whether the OP understands the problem that soft proofing attempts to solve, and a lack of understanding can lead to inflated expectations.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2015, 06:04 PM
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Re: soft proofing settings help

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
I get that. My concern is that (without being condescending to the OP) I'm not sure he fully understands the problem itself to a sufficient level to draw realistic expectations.
I didn't make that assumption so it wasn't my concern when posting about this technology
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2015, 06:56 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: soft proofing settings help

OK, let's be real here. I'll point out to couple of things, so there is no such thing as absolute right or wrong, just cases I encountered.

Labels for bottles, boxes, all sorts of packaging. Here and there you get to do a label, and they want you to do proofing for different sorts of material (which is impossible BTW, printing on a transparent sticker vs. dull paper vs. laminated vs. waxed vs recycled), so they supply profiles. As long as they all match up on your screen, you've done all that can be done, as there is no way you can know what is the exact process unless you are there. We are RETOUCHERS, not pre-press, and not printers. Some may offer these kind of services, but I don't and it's really a whole another field.

Your proofing job mostly is to make sure that your pretty picture doesn't loose it's pretty cyan and blue colors in print, so you check with different profiles, OK? To make things simple.

NO WAY you can simulate all the endless printing process options on your local printer, especially those that are printed on things like T-shirts or plastic. If you are given a profile, you make sure that your work translates well to the profile and you request the profile to proof agains from the beginning, this is not an afterthought. Now you've done all you can do. The fact that a file can be replicated on all platforms. Consistency in actual production is some other persons job.

The ONLY reason we proof is because some colors simply don't exist across all profiles concerned. And don't fall into trap of proofing for profiles noone asked you to, there is no such thing as an image that is absolutely the same across all platforms in the world.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2015, 08:34 PM
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Re: soft proofing settings help

Throwing my hat in the ring about soft proofing. I do soft proof all my images when I print at home. Its no silver bullet but anything that brings me an inch closer to printing what I see on the screen is worth the effort. Just like I know that having calibrating my monitor, controlling my ambient light, focusing on specific papers and a specific printer, and specific profiles bring me closer to achieving the same end. Its a process of removing as many variables as possible.

By the same token I also know that no matter what I do whoever hangs one of my prints has different lighting conditions than I can simulate and print for. That person will even have a different way of seeing light and color than I do. So my own experience is soft proofing is worth doing but in itself its only one step of many in the right direction.
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