RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:25 AM
V1972 V1972 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
High End Micro Dodge and Burn

So I've seen and read countless tutorials on dodging and burning. Many were extremely helpful and have definitely pushed my retouching skills forward however any time I try to find any kind of in depth tutorial regarding MICRO dodge and burn it would seem like there's hardly anything available. It almost seems like an industry secret at times. Can anyone possibly point me in the right direction?

Thank you.
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:39 PM
AKMac's Avatar
AKMac AKMac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London and Argyll, Scotland.
Posts: 309
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Micro is a relative term. The transition from broad D&B structuring of form through to minute detailed work is a gradual one. If you could describe more clearly (with examples) what you mean by Micro, it would help in answering your query.
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:49 PM
V1972 V1972 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

The perfectly uniform skin that was achieved in this link was done with micro D&B. It is this level of perfection that I am trying to achieve as well.

https://fstoppers.com/post-productio...etup-more-9281
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:00 PM
AKMac's Avatar
AKMac AKMac is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London and Argyll, Scotland.
Posts: 309
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

I don't think there is any difference in the technique required for broad D&B work, and for the type in the example you linked. If there is a difference it is probably in the visualisation/assessment of the work, where being zoomed in can be problematic. Personally I would have another window or windows open at useful zoom settings to help in assessing the effect of such close work.
Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:07 PM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1972 View Post
The perfectly uniform skin that was achieved in this link was done with micro D&B. It is this level of perfection that I am trying to achieve as well.
There are a couple things to mention. First I think that looks overdone, and if you aren't used to doing such a thing, you should be very careful. It's easy to destroy any sense of muscle and bone structures that way.

The term micro isn't universal. They used it there, but I think it has a bad connotation. You might sometimes use a very small brush, but you want to avoid constantly zooming in past 100%. It makes you lose perspective.

Apart from that if you're going to work on very fine detail, you need a lot of control. Open a blank document. Switch to the paintbrush tool. Test out how precise you can draw straight lines, sweeps, circles, etc. You'll see some deviation, and it's important to note that over a lot of work put into a given image, those deviations do come up if you're dealing with very fine details. That's pretty much what you should work on, because like I said, zooming way in all the time makes you lose perspective. Also there's no such thing as an industry secret, and you can find old posts from that author on here.
Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:08 PM
V1972 V1972 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Then why does that article make such a huge distinction between local D&B and global D&B? They specifically mention that global D&B is used for sculpting the face while local D&B is used to even out the skin texture and tone. I could of course be wrong but I'm just trying to understand how certain retouchers can retouch skin to magazine quality. I'm not looking for any kind of shortcuts and I don't mind spending hours on 1 image but I just want to know how it's properly done. Thank you.
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:39 PM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1972 View Post
Then why does that article make such a huge distinction between local D&B and global D&B?
It's a distinction made to help the intended audience here. I would have written it differently, but here's the issue. You want to be able to revise things, so you often use different layers to do fine detailing. That way if you have to use the history brush or something else to back off an overdone portion or one where you changed your mind, you won't affect something meant to taper the lighting.

I do it like this. I make a test layer, typically channel mixer for dodging. I boost red -> red, green-> green and blue -> blue a bit. They're not all equal, and I often use different layers for different parts of an image. The idea is that I can paint over a darker portion that I wish to smooth out and the color will trend toward that of the lighter portions nearby if done over a 2-10 pixel radius. I typically use between 20-50% brush hardness on small details. It keeps things from bleeding over too much.

If I can find an image that I like that which does not generate any copyright issues, I may make a tutorial of my own. It wouldn't be so much a how to as a case study with mistakes to avoid early on. The problem is that I can picture all of it, but I don't know how well this comes across without examples, including ones of what can go wrong.
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 07-23-2015, 07:27 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,376
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1972 View Post
Then why does that article make such a huge distinction between local D&B and global D&B? They specifically mention that global D&B is used for sculpting the face while local D&B is used to even out the skin texture and tone. I could of course be wrong but I'm just trying to understand how certain retouchers can retouch skin to magazine quality. I'm not looking for any kind of shortcuts and I don't mind spending hours on 1 image but I just want to know how it's properly done. Thank you.
Because it's addressing amateur community, and it is almost impossible for someone off the street with no previous art knowledge to shade the face with any anatomic preciseness.

So they divide it into steps. Truth being that many retouchers (like myself) do local (clean-up) dodge and burn on different set of layers layers than global (shading) dodge and burn. And even those come in multiple sets. That is because clients(or you) can change their minds, and you don't want to redo all that tone evening in order to reduce or change shading.

Technique is the exact same, only difference being how zoomed in you are.
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:39 PM
V1972 V1972 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
Because it's addressing amateur community, and it is almost impossible for someone off the street with no previous art knowledge to shade the face with any anatomic preciseness.
I agree that a lot of these tutorials are aimed at the amateur community which is exactly why I am always in search of real world high end techniques that actual retouchers use. As I said before, I am in no way looking for any sort of shortcuts. I'm willing to do the work but finding materials and tutorials that are aimed toward advanced retouchers has not been easy which is why I was hoping someone here could perhaps point me in the right direction. Thank you.
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 07-24-2015, 03:58 AM
klev klev is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,109
Re: High End Micro Dodge and Burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by V1972 View Post
I agree that a lot of these tutorials are aimed at the amateur community which is exactly why I am always in search of real world high end techniques that actual retouchers use.
Here's one from a guy that used to post on here. He charges quite a bit for access, and I'm sure it's an attempt to cover his time and recover any costs on something with a limited market. You can read the headings without purchasing the series, and you should note that he refers to a lot of the same stuff that I discussed in earlier posts (a year or more ago).

If I had access to some images that I really liked with permission to do whatever I want and post them, I would probably make one that includes coverage of reference material and some reasoning on how to avoid flattening muscle and bone aspects of the face.

No one ever talks about stuff like that, and they never mention things like how to test your drawing accuracy. It can alleviate a lot of frustration if you're able to ensure that things always behave as expected.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Photo Retouching


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved