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may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bit?

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  #11  
Old 11-08-2015, 10:24 AM
mkauff mkauff is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

I use it, bought it when it was released. Very versatile, use it on most images.
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2015, 11:07 AM
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mantra mantra is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkauff View Post
I use it, bought it when it was released. Very versatile, use it on most images.
hi
before buy it can i ask you a question ?
i watched some tutorials
but in the image linked , i can see 2 cross(es)
on the right of (e) and 10
can i know how does it work ?
thanks

http://gregbenzphotography.com/wp-co...zia-1-5-CC.jpg
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  #13  
Old 11-08-2015, 10:42 PM
Click Click is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Yes...

https://tonykuyper.wordpress.com/201...d-zone-picker/
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2015, 09:59 AM
mkauff mkauff is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Mantra: in terms of the two crosses, they basically determine whether you have a wide or a narrow mask depending on the zone selected. I use Lumenzia regularly, and have left a question with Greg re 8 versus 16 bit. He travels extensively overseas, so may take a day or two for the response, but I will post as soon as it is in.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2015, 10:11 AM
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

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Originally Posted by mkauff View Post
Mantra: in terms of the two crosses, they basically determine whether you have a wide or a narrow mask depending on the zone selected. I use Lumenzia regularly, and have left a question with Greg re 8 versus 16 bit. He travels extensively overseas, so may take a day or two for the response, but I will post as soon as it is in.
thanks a lot mkauff
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2015, 12:22 PM
redcrown redcrown is online now
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

I believe there may be some misconceptions here, perhaps based on older versions of Photoshop?

To the base question, "Are Photoshop selections and masks always in 8 bit mode, even if the image is in 16 bit mode?", I believe the answer is NO. Selections made on a 16 bit image are true 16 bit selections. If those selections are saved as a channel/mask, they are in 16 bit mode.

A test to prove (in current Photoshop):

1. Open a raw image in 16 bit mode.
2. Dupe the image and convert the dupe to 8 bit mode.
3. On the 16 bit version, go to Channels pallet, ctrl-click on the RGB channel to get a selection. Save that selection as a new channel.
4. Do the same on the 8 bit version.

You now have 2 identical selections, one made in 16 bit and one in 8 bit. If Photoshop is always making 8 bit selections, these 2 selections should be the same. But they are not. To see that:

5. In the 16 bit version, go to channels pallet, click on the "selection" channel and copy it (ctrl-a, ctrl-c).
6. Click on the RGB channel, return to the layers pallet and paste a new layer (ctrl-v).
7. Go to the 8 bit version. Repeat step 5 to copy the 8 bit selection channel.
8. Retun to the 16 bit version and paste a new layer.

You now have the 8 bit selection as a layer on top of the 16 bit selection. Are they identical?

9. Put the 8 bit version in "Difference" mode. The display will look black, indicating no difference. But how can you be sure?

10. Display the Histogram. Remember that the histogram initially displays an estimate that may not be accurate. You need to click on the exclamation point to force a true histogram.

11. Look at the "Std Dev" value in the histogram. If it is anything other than zero, there is a difference between the two layers. You will probably see a value between 0.30 and 0.60.

For comparison, try this test on the base color layer of the two images. Just copy the 8 bit background layer and paste it on top of the 16 bit background. Put the 8 bit layer in Difference mode and inspect the histogram. The difference you measure is the difference between the 8 bit and 16 bit versions of the image.

Perhaps this test method is flawed in some way. I'd be interested if anyone can show a different test that proves 16 bit selections are identical to 8 bit selections.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2015, 12:27 PM
redcrown redcrown is online now
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Perhaps of more importance when working with luminosity masks is the difference you will get depending on the colorspace of your image (sRGB, Adobe98, ProPhoto), and the Gray Color Settings in your Photoshop preferences.

I made this video about 3 years ago to demonstrate those differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HX9UJA3rEQ
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2015, 12:47 PM
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Question Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
Hi Mantra
Not sure how the new masks are actually formed in version 4 but can certainly accept that they are true 16 bit.
Tony
do you use tk panel v4 ?

because i have a question ?
1) i create a luminocit mask ("super dark") , i have to click D5 on the tk v4 panel
2) i want to narrow this luminocity mask , and have super super super dark

ok?
to have the super super super dark what have i to do ?
ctrl+alt+shift on the mask
or is there a button on the tk v4 to obtain the same ctrl+alt+shift ?

thanks
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2015, 01:33 PM
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Tony W Tony W is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcrown View Post
I believe there may be some misconceptions here, perhaps based on older versions of Photoshop?

To the base question, "Are Photoshop selections and masks always in 8 bit mode, even if the image is in 16 bit mode?", I believe the answer is NO. Selections made on a 16 bit image are true 16 bit selections. If those selections are saved as a channel/mask, they are in 16 bit mode.
Hi redcrown
I can see that there are misconceptions here and elsewhere and TBH discussion can get a little confusing and really the difference between 8 bit selection and 16 bits I would think in many cases irrelevant as you are not going to really pick up differences.

Quote:
Are Photoshop selections and masks always in 8 bit mode, even if the image is in 16 bit mode?
Although I use PS CS6 I do not believe things have changed with CC
Channels and Layer masks will be 16 bit in 16 bit documents but if you make a selection (dancing ants) before saving as channel or layer mask then they will be 8 bit

TK's luminosity masks have up until recently been selections (additions and subtractions to get lights and darks) therefore the saved selection is 8 bit even though the the original channel or mask may have been 16 bit.

It seems that he now uses Calculations to produce the mask thereby staying in 16 bit. My understanding is the result of Calculations is again saved to channels for Lights and Darks and if the required Light or Dark is selected from the Channel menu then it will be passed as 8 bit, however if you use Apply image to pass your channel to say Curves mask then this will be passed as 16 bit.

It seems Greg Benz has come up with a different approach in that the masks are produced initially with a preview but do not touch the channels or layers palette as selection - assume that this is accomplished using Calculations again.

FWIW
Quote:
Tony Kuyper
It turns out that regardless of the bit depth of the image, selections are always 8-bit. Even on a 16-bit image, selections are still 8-bit....
... The 8-bit degree of selection is only determining how adjustments get passed to the pixels below. It is not changing the 16-bit precision of the color data in those pixels.
Unlike selections, the bit depth of masks always matches the bit depth of the image. Layer masks and channel masks on a 16-bit image are themselves 16-bit. ...

...Photoshop’s Calculations dialog (Image > Calculations…) provides the key. This dialog can be a bit confusing and is not often used by most photographers. But it’s quite powerful. It can take the 16-bit data from an image or individual channel and, after doing the calculations, output it as a 16-bit channel mask. So it’s 16-bit in and 16-bit out with no 8-bit in between.
Quote:
Greg Benz
Does Lumenzia support 16-bit color?
Yes! Layer masks always match the bit depth of the image (ie, 16 bits for a 16 bit image). Channel based approaches (such as my free actions) typically use selections. Because selections are always 8-bits in Photoshop, these masks are built with multiple operations performed on 8-bit data. Lumenzia uses a 16-bit workflow to create masks. While the benefit of 16-bits is typically modest for luminosity masking, this can be beneficial in more extreme circumstances – such as adjusting a sunset sky through a fifth level lights mask (as performing five 8-bit operations is likely to produce banding in the mask and a strong adjustment may make this apparent in the final image).
My highlighting just because it agrees with what I stated

Of course I could be wrong and as I use my own Luminosity masks actions have little to compare with these commercial versions
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2015, 01:47 PM
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Tony W Tony W is offline
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Re: may i know if kuyper luminocity masks are 16bi

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantra View Post
Tony
do you use tk panel v4 ?
No, I use my own home made version from selections (therefore they are 8 bit)

Quote:
because i have a question ?
1) i create a luminocit mask ("super dark") , i have to click D5 on the tk v4 panel
2) i want to narrow this luminocity mask , and have super super super dark

ok?
to have the super super super dark what have i to do ?
ctrl+alt+shift on the mask
or is there a button on the tk v4 to obtain the same ctrl+alt+shift ?

thanks
I do not know the answers to these questions but I will make a guess and hopefully someone who knows the TK panel will either correct me or confirm

If you want a super super dark then is there any reason that you cannot apply levels or curves to the mask (assuming mask is still saved in Channels palette). Additionally I cannot think of a reason why you cannot refine your mask by painting on with black or white if necessary

Does Ctrl+Alt+Shift have a noticeable effect on mask density?
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