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new db technique

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  #11  
Old 01-18-2016, 12:20 AM
adtechniques adtechniques is offline
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Re: new db technique

why need change your D&B if it work good. D&B is play with light. Nothing more.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2016, 12:22 AM
adtechniques adtechniques is offline
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Re: new db technique

And don't touch LF with brush, it's bandbass and make BLUR
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2016, 02:11 AM
klev klev is offline
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Re: new db technique

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
Do you mean I'd better local D&B in tiny dots and lines instead of doing freq sep (lasso tool and blur)?
There are very few situations where there's a good reason to resort to blur. For example I'll use it if I need to make something look out of focus to match something else. It is generally a bad tool for general refinement, because in general any kind of smoothing requires a light touch.

In general if you have a good workflow that provides the necessary control, you should be able to make minor adjustments to refine it over time.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2016, 05:06 AM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: new db technique

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You don't go selecting an entire area on low pass and blur it
So the bigger takeaways here is that I can do away with freq separation except when cleaning up the skin with the healing brush tool on the texture (hi pass) layer.

It's easy for me to make everything smooth - remove skin blotchiness - with different (amateur) techniques. One is to smooth out the color by using the mixer brush tool (sort of smudge the color). One more is to add an additional duplicate layer of the original image between hi and low pass then apply blur or portraiture to it then I cover this layer with a black layer mask and paint over the areas where I need it.

As I understand, the main idea of local dnb (pixel-level) is to even out the skin to achieve that even surface look while the goal of global dnb is to sculpt and add volume and dimensionality.

Now that I understand the conceptual difference between the two I still wonder how to properly apply local dnb. I have seen some amazing dnb masks by retoucher Vilca (https://www.facebook.com/JesusVilcaRetoucher). Are those tiny dots and lines made on a seperate sets of masked curve layers? Since they appear white on the mask I still can't tell if they've been made on the dodge or burn layer.

Also, I'm in two minds whether I should use different visual aids for local and global dnb. When I do global dnb I normally set a tone help folder made of a color blended mode hue/sat layer with saturation -100 then on top of that I add a multiply blended mode curve layer with the curve slightly pulled up. Should I set a different monochrome layer when doing local dnb?

Thanks
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2016, 07:36 AM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: new db technique

Bigger takeaway is that you pay the attention to the result, rather than technique. If it looks good, it is good.

"Portraiture"... it's pointless to talk about that "retouching" here. As for the masks on the Jesus retoucher facebook page... I've both seen and done much more detailed masks(yes, it needs to look just like the image in some instances), but in general yes, you go into that amount of detail or greater, depending on the image, sometimes you need to, sometimes you don't, and he has quite a variety there, so you can see that it all depends on the input and the desired output.

There is no "local" and "global". It all ends in one result. If you're affecting the "look" rather than fixing/smoothing things, you still have togo into detial to make it look good. So, you can do a "fix" pass and a "look" pass, and it can be a good idea if you tend to change your mind a lot concerning the final look.

That desaturation layer should go above everything. That is fine, you can reduce the fill of that curve layer, or the opacity, or lift the curve, lower the curve... doesn't really matter. It's just an aid for lighter areas, and screen adjustment would be helpful for darker areas.
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2016, 02:06 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: new db technique

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
So the bigger takeaways here is that I can do away with freq separation except when cleaning up the skin with the healing brush tool on the texture (hi pass) layer.
I don't use it at all. It adds to my file size, and I don't think the results of the healing brush are significantly better that way. Adobe could effectively consider similar information every time you use the healing brush if that is the goal. Their gaussian blur is an approximation where pixels beyond a certain distance are not considered in setting the value of a given pixel. Computing it for the area of a healing brush is probably quite feasible for hardware that can run creative cloud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post

As I understand, the main idea of local dnb (pixel-level) is to even out the skin to achieve that even surface look while the goal of global dnb is to sculpt and add volume and dimensionality.
Sometimes I have to address very few pixels at a time, but I rarely go past 100% zoom. If you're constantly zoomed way way in, you'll lose perspective for the work and overdo things. I could understand the need to zoom in slightly further if you have to retouch with a mouse, because it's a very rough tool.

By the way, if you do that, I suggest ensuring that you disable mouse acceleration and set the mapping speed low. It takes time to get used to that, but you will have better control.

If you're using a tablet, make sure you have the ability to draw simple things like a decent circle or a straight line. If you have sufficient dexterity, you won't feel the need to zoom way in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post

Also, I'm in two minds whether I should use different visual aids for local and global dnb. When I do global dnb I normally set a tone help folder made of a color blended mode hue/sat layer with saturation -100 then on top of that I add a multiply blended mode curve layer with the curve slightly pulled up. Should I set a different monochrome layer when doing local dnb?

Thanks
You don't want to make things overly complicated. The goals in choosing a toolset are predictable results and the ability to make sufficiently fine adjustments. If you have those two things, switching tools will have very little additional impact past that point.

I usually avoid blending modes like multiply for general work, because it generates bad results at times.

What do you use for visual aids? I would not increase the apparent contrast of the image to spot signs of roughness. It will lead to over-retouching the image. I use a couple visual aids that provide increased contrast if I'm looking for signs of dust, banding, pimples covered by makeup, subtle welding marks, and problems created in retouching. Some of these things may be difficult to spot, yet might be barely visible in a final reproduction. Otherwise I view the image normally.

You want to achieve results that require good judgement. I suggest simple workflows for that, because they take your mind off the mundane steps and keep you focused on the image.

Last edited by klev; 01-18-2016 at 02:11 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2016, 06:43 AM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: new db technique

I believe the following is the best video I could find to understand micro pixel and sculpting. Now it's about time to get down to work.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2016, 01:58 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: new db technique

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I believe the following is the best video I could find to understand micro pixel and sculpting. Now it's about time to get down to work.
You'll find that softlight blending modes can work, but they have some significant downsides.
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2016, 07:07 PM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: new db technique

If I understand correctly lighting from aside reveal texture so skin blotchiness projects shadows after highlights. The goal of pixel level dnb is to deal with those micro shadows and highlights. If I had the light more on camera axis plus a proper fill would that make my job easier?

Also, could I use the Healing Brush tool to paint with sampled pixels from a uniform surface area of the skin?
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2016, 09:06 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: new db technique

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
If I understand correctly lighting from aside reveal texture so skin blotchiness projects shadows after highlights. The goal of pixel level dnb is to deal with those micro shadows and highlights.
This is a very bad strategy. It means they have too much contrast due to bad lighting or too much sharpening or something else. Now they're going to try to fix it by going over every pixel. It looks like crap when people do this, and it takes hours of post work for something that ultimately doesn't look good. You're going to end up very frustrated if you keep buying into that.

Ultimately the direction of your light source isn't the problem here. Having a larger light source relative to the subject or a more diffused one will basically solve this. If you use harsh light sources then over-retouch to compensate, you're making more work for yourself. I wouldn't use harsh lighting unless it's the only way to achieve the intended effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
Also, could I use the Healing Brush tool to paint with sampled pixels from a uniform surface area of the skin?
I have seen people use basic tools like this to try to mimic the idea of a more uniform skin pattern. You should really look at actual skin. It doesn't look like you imagine it. If you want uniformity, you create it and ask yourself whether it looks weird that way before fully committing to it.
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