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How to apply Pantone skin tones

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  #111  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:28 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
CMYK profile is SWOP (Coated), 20%, GCR, Medium (350% Ink Limit).

If I ever printed I think I'd have to bring it down to 300% though.
That isn't the right way to do it. Your target ink limit and your separation type are determined by your target output. Different combinations of press type and stock have different specifications. If you're sending something out in cmyk, you would first review those submission guidelines. You wouldn't reduce the range unless your target output requires it.

If you're printing on an inkjet or something of that sort, check whether it can properly handle cmyk at all. Some of the drivers/RIPs (those not intended for proofing) expect rgb and may not generate ideal results if supplied with a cmyk file.

Lastly pay attention to what I mentioned. When you convert to cmyk, check for clipping in cyan, magenta, and yellow. You can lose image detail, and further adjustments will make that detail loss appear more prominent.
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  #112  
Old 02-26-2016, 08:50 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
That isn't the right way to do it. Your target ink limit and your separation type are determined by your target output. Different combinations of press type and stock have different specifications. If you're sending something out in cmyk, you would first review those submission guidelines. You wouldn't reduce the range unless your target output requires it.
Amen to those spot on comments.
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  #113  
Old 03-04-2016, 10:06 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Some thoughts On Applying transparent skin colors:

The curve adjustment layers are non-destructive, clean, clear, totally changeable ways to add brightness, darkness or any color to an image without destroying or covering up any underlying pixels. Curve adjustment layers are an excellent way to create or change skin colors.

You can create any color of skin... totally clear, transparent color... that can be applied selectively... using the black layer mask and a white brush set at 6% opacity to avoid brush marks. You create a black layer mask by doing a control/command I to invert the white mask that gets created automatically when the adjustment layer is created.

Once you have your colors down and applied...they can be changed or edited by just resetting the curves or by painting on the mask with black or white to hide or reveal the color in different places and by different intensities. Curve adjustment layers are clear and totally changeable...they are extremely creative and visually powerful and totally changeable.

To make colors with curves...dont use the RGB channel...pull it down to reveal the red channel and then pull up on the center of the curve just a little bit. Then go to the blue channel and pull down on the center of the blue curve to get the yellow component of skin... and maybe pull down the center of the green curve to add in some tan coloration to the skin...then if you want you can go back to the RGB curve and lighten or darken the color...you can also do that. SO...You can create ANY color of skin by just pulling up in the red curve, down on the blue curve and maybe just a little bit down on the green curve if you want a more tanned, darker skin tone.

BTW... i N E V E R use CMYK to get or match skin colors...its a Magazine PRINT methodology... so unless youre a magazine editor or print shop that uses Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and black inks every day...CYMK is not an intuitive way to make or match skin tones.

I use HSB...Hue, Saturation and Brightness. The hue of skin tones always falls between just a few degrees of color numbers...between 13 and 24 degrees. If your hue is in that range...you will bet correct color. Then just add in how much color you want with saturation and how bright the skin is with the brightness...its SO MUCH EASIER to get into the ballpark with skin if you know most all skin is within a 10 degree bandwidth to start and end with.... None of this less magenta, and more yellow 45 percent stuff!!! If youre not doing Magazines...use the Hue/Saturation/Brightness way of getting good skin tones. You will know that you like 14 degree skin real quick... or some other easy to remember and re-create number.

Below is an example of the 4 tones minimum you need for replacing skin color on a face... You need a highlight color, a midtone color and a shadow color...and perhaps a blush color.

Remember that there are shadow skin tones on a face that look darker than the main tone, and mid tones and highlight colors of skin too. If you apply just one shade or Pantone...or make your own colors with curves...that one color all over the face will make it look unnatural. You have to use at least 3 transparent colors on the skin and face to begin to make it look natural. One tone of Pantone is flat and fake.

See what I mean below in the attachment: Go and borrow 5 skin color swatches from another skin image...sample in the highlight area to get that skin number...then sample in the midtone skin for that midtone number... and then in the shadows for the darker skin tone. You might also pick out the cheek/blush color for contouring the cheeks. Once you get the Hue you like...its easy to just dial in some saturation to make it more colored and to change the brightness to get the skin to look like you like.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Skin Tones1.jpg (41.9 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by ray12; 03-04-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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  #114  
Old 03-04-2016, 11:06 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by ray12 View Post
Some thoughts On Applying transparent skin colors: [...]
Thanks this was very generous of you!
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  #115  
Old 03-27-2016, 04:58 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
Yes, you can see what the Pantone color is in numbers like RGB, but skin is not a single uniform color all over.
I have come to think of this again as I am getting used to thinking in terms of luminosity and chromaticity.

This is an image I've come across recently I was struck with the uniformity of the tones: link

I split the image to analyse the hue, saturation and luminosity: link

I also put a solar curve on the hue: link

Both the talents share the exact same chromaticity and there does not seem to be discernable texture. Previsously in this thread I read about different colour for highlight, midtones and shadows. That makes me wonder if skin tone should be mapped to luminosity or what. Gradient maps are indeed mapped to luminosity. A layer in color mode is not; it can be mapped to saturation or hue.

Would I better paint the skin on a low opacity colour layer in color blending mode (with a clipped hue/sat adjustment layer to it in hue blending) and let the brightness of the image do the remap?

Thanks
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  #116  
Old 03-27-2016, 05:18 PM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by ray12 View Post
I use HSB...Hue, Saturation and Brightness. The hue of skin tones always falls between just a few degrees of color numbers...between 13 and 24 degrees. If your hue is in that range...you will bet correct color. Then just add in how much color you want with saturation and how bright the skin is with the brightness...its SO MUCH EASIER to get into the ballpark with skin if you know most all skin is within a 10 degree bandwidth to start and end with.... None of this less magenta, and more yellow 45 percent stuff!!! If youre not doing Magazines...use the Hue/Saturation/Brightness way of getting good skin tones. You will know that you like 14 degree skin real quick... or some other easy to remember and re-create number.
The thing is how to go about having uniform hue in the skin. Say I want to have the overall hue close to 19 degrees. Also, I use a solar curve as a visual help to see the hue. One method is similar to dnb; two hue/sat adjustment layers in hue blenind mode with master at +15 and -15 hue and then paint on the mask. Other method is sample and paint in a color blending mode layer at low opacity and tweak it by clipping a hue/sat adjust in hue mode.

Splitting the image in luma and chroma I see that the chroma of the skin most of the time is nearly a single uniform color hue. The dnb in the luminosity (shading) does the rest of the job. Also, I shoud add that, as I understand, I could perform the uniformity on the saturation as well (by painting on the masks of two vibrance adjustment layers +15 - 15).

At least this is how I see it at the moment, skin may not be a single uniform color all over but that does not seem to hold true for its chromaticity (the hue map proves this right).
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  #117  
Old 03-27-2016, 07:55 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I have come to think of this again as I am getting used to thinking in terms of luminosity and chromaticity.
The problem there is that these things are visually correlated. You can see this by comparing color patches and varying only one of those attributes. You'll see this in both LAB and RGB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
This is an image I've come across recently I was struck with the uniformity of the tones: link

I split the image to analyse the hue, saturation and luminosity: link

I also put a solar curve on the hue: link

Both the talents share the exact same chromaticity and there does not seem to be discernable texture. Previsously in this thread I read about different colour for highlight, midtones and shadows. That makes me wonder if skin tone should be mapped to luminosity or what. Gradient maps are indeed mapped to luminosity. A layer in color mode is not; it can be mapped to saturation or hue.
As you can see in your example, there are still small differences. They appear as splotches in your adjusted sample. If you try painting over that skin in color mode, you may be disappointed by the results. They made small differences work by limiting the range. Highlights aren't that bright or large. The ones that do exist are tinted differently. That light didn't pass through multiple layers of skin, so it make sense.

I wouldn't separately adjust the color balance of highlights, midtones, and shadows on the same object in most cases. Achieving good results like that is extremely difficult, especially because targets are usually more ambiguous than you may realize.

I would not personally try a gradient map or painting any kind of constant there. It's useful for small areas like cloning in color mode if some small number of pixels are way off in balance due to noise/artifacts or something similar.

As for how they achieved this, I don't think they painted it over with any kind of constant. The original image probably appeared a little bit flatter. They could have masked out the skin and used however many adjustment layers to get this basic skintone. Any details that were a little off could have been solved with subsequent work.

The bold supporting details make the look work. For example the sunglasses have a lot of contrast with the dark lenses and feature detail. The top is very saturated. The hair isn't catching flare from the background or if it was it was removed. Lips also stand out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
Would I better paint the skin on a low opacity colour layer in color blending mode (with a clipped hue/sat adjustment layer to it in hue blending) and let the brightness of the image do the remap?

Thanks
Photoshop's tools are fairly predictable even when used this way. It's just the effects can be undesirable. It takes less time to do a rough test of this than I spent writing this response, so you might as well try it.
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  #118  
Old 03-28-2016, 04:02 AM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
there are still small differences. They appear as splotches in your adjusted sample.
I can notice them mostly on the saturation maps and the brightness. The solar on the hue map exaggerate the differentietions a lot (barely visible without it). I can see a ratio; the lightest the brightness the lesser the saturation. In other words the lightest in the luminosity map the darkest in the saturation map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klev View Post
Highlights aren't that bright or large. The ones that do exist are tinted differently
If I think in terms of HSB (something new to me) that differentietion in tint is caused by different brighness values thus hue is mapped to luminosity.

I watch a lot of timelapse videos and found the following where the retoucher (from minute 6) uses a color fill adjustment in color mode while visualizing the saturation map to limiting the range. Also, a gradient map in hue mode is used. I understand this might be one of the many ways to accomplish one kind of skin tone. Yet, it's still interesting to get ideas: link (continuous play/pause required)
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  #119  
Old 03-28-2016, 08:06 AM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I can notice them mostly on the saturation maps and the brightness. The solar on the hue map exaggerate the differentietions a lot (barely visible without it). I can see a ratio; the lightest the brightness the lesser the saturation. In other words the lightest in the luminosity map the darkest in the saturation map.
That's right. And if you stop using non-sense layers you can just aim it visually That's because highlights reflect the light source.



Also, shadows, as a rule, have Hue value couple of points - than the mid tones, and are less saturated as well.
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  #120  
Old 03-28-2016, 06:42 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I can notice them mostly on the saturation maps and the brightness. The solar on the hue map exaggerate the differentietions a lot (barely visible without it). I can see a ratio; the lightest the brightness the lesser the saturation. In other words the lightest in the luminosity map the darkest in the saturation map.
That might be why I can see them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
If I think in terms of HSB (something new to me) that differentietion in tint is caused by different brighness values thus hue is mapped to luminosity.
That can be slightly dangerous, because human vision doesn't really work that way. Saturated colors actually appear brighter, which is why I suggest some caution. You don't want to convince yourself that you have a scientific understanding of the material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I watch a lot of timelapse videos and found the following where the retoucher (from minute 6) uses a color fill adjustment in color mode while visualizing the saturation map to limiting the range. Also, a gradient map in hue mode is used. I understand this might be one of the many ways to accomplish one kind of skin tone. Yet, it's still interesting to get ideas: link (continuous play/pause required)
You can see the exact things I warned about in his work. Some of the highlights are also absurdly bright relative to other points. Just look at his site. I think it's nice work in spite of those two details.
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