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How to apply Pantone skin tones

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  #121  
Old 03-29-2016, 07:02 AM
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marameo marameo is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Yes, that work is very nice and I love how the retouching process was kept simple; one layer for healing, one curve for dodge a few tweaks for color corrections. Besides the paint on a color layer thing that can be open to some criticism, is the technique of hue +15-15 and vibrance +15-15 (or paint on blank layer in saturation mode with red/black) considered reasonable when it comes to color corrections (locally)?
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  #122  
Old 03-30-2016, 10:41 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
Yes, that work is very nice and I love how the retouching process was kept simple; one layer for healing, one curve for dodge a few tweaks for color corrections.
Simplicity is good, but this is just one image. You don't know that he's able to do every image with so few layers. It also doesn't mean he could do anyone's work with 3 layers. I always kept my layers labeled and organized. Sometimes I used a number of them, so it was important.

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
Besides the paint on a color layer thing that can be open to some criticism, is the technique of hue +15-15 and vibrance +15-15 (or paint on blank layer in saturation mode with red/black) considered reasonable when it comes to color corrections (locally)?
It might be. The good thing is that plus or minus 15 isn't a crazy amount of adjustment. When you go overboard with numbers, it's more likely that you will encounter weird side effects and edge cases. It's a lot like overfitting data.
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  #123  
Old 01-03-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by klev View Post
As for how they achieved this, I don't think they painted it over with any kind of constant. The original image probably appeared a little bit flatter. They could have masked out the skin and used however many adjustment layers to get this basic skintone. Any details that were a little off could have been solved with subsequent work.
I am back to the subject!

After spending some time assisting in color analog printing I was looking for a way to mimic the process of altering the color cast and adjust color in general. The concept is to add/subtract colour filtration.

I run across this site where they explain the use of Image→Adjustments→Levels tool, especially the Highlight slider and the Lower Highlight slider (as a continuation of the Highlight slider with opposite effect). The following is the part about color integrity:

*The Special Importance of "Highlight" Adjustments

The adjustment is achieved entirely using the Red, Green, and Blue Highlight sliders or Lower Highlight sliders of the Levels tool. The effect of moving the Red Highlight slider to the left is to increase the light value of red in each pixel by an amount proportional to the red already present. This affects the entire image and is exactly the effect that adding a red color compensation filter (with a corresponding enlarger "f-stop" adjustment) would have. So the entire action of the Highlight picker-dropper adjustment is precisely that of making corrections using the appropriate color compensation filters. Making any major color adjustments by this method is really the only way to preserve the color integrity of the image – assuming color integrity is there to start with. Some care must be exercised when using the Lower Highlight slider. When this slider takes on values below around 235 to 240, Photoshop makes the proportional effect progressively larger than it should be – yet another Photoshop peculiarity. The effect is still that of a colored filter, but the increased effect can be annoying when trying to add a calculated amount of, say, Red, to keep in balance with similar changes in the other channels.


So, the level adjustment seems to be the tool that allows for color correction as in the old days of darkroom color printing with colour filtration and preserve the color integrity of the image also.
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  #124  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:38 AM
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Tony W Tony W is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I am back to the subject!

After spending some time assisting in color analog printing I was looking for a way to mimic the process of altering the color cast and adjust color in general. The concept is to add/subtract colour filtration.

I run across this site where they explain the use of Image→Adjustments→Levels tool, especially the Highlight slider and the Lower Highlight slider (as a continuation of the Highlight slider with opposite effect). ......
...
So, the level adjustment seems to be the tool that allows for color correction as in the old days of darkroom color printing with colour filtration and preserve the color integrity of the image also.
I am not sure the site you picked particularly helpful - seemingly talking about correcting colour from a scanned negative. And I am also somewhat dubious about the value of trying to mimic correcting colour as in the days of analogue printing - digital is far easier and the net result is immediately apparent on monitor rather than waiting for the chemical process to complete.

Early days of analogue colour printing were probably using Additive/Tricolour method i.e. making a print from a negative by three separate exposures Red, Green and Blue. Some simple automatic printers also employed this method along with mixing the light to average grey value that in many instances worked well for both colour and luminosity.

More sophisticated method used Subtraction method, where Yellow, Magenta and Cyan filters were combined and placed in the light path between negative and print material (in reality only 2 colours would be used as combining Y, M and C had a neutral density effect).

Both of these methods complex (without sophisticated measuring equipment) and required much experience and even then test prints for the very best results.

With digital imaging you have a number of tools at your disposal to help you including the Levels tool, but you will probably find that the Curves tool is more flexible to achieve what you want. Do not forget that you can also alter layer blending modes to affect just colour or luminosity or both as required
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  #125  
Old 01-03-2017, 12:45 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
I am not sure the site you picked particularly helpful - seemingly talking about correcting colour from a scanned negative.
Actually there is more then that; the site covers interesting topics such as the blackpoint, the highlight slider and much more:

http://www.c-f-systems.com/Docs/Colo...ityCFS-243.pdf (Page 12)
http://www.c-f-systems.com/Complete/...tml#FogExample
http://www.c-f-systems.com/Complete/Genesis.html
http://www.c-f-systems.com/Complete/CIP.html

It made me change the way I look at levels adjustments.

*
*
"These two puzzles caused me to explore both artistic painting and the mathematics of blackpoint to see if I could find answers. As it finally turned out, it really was necessary to run the two studies in tandem to arrive at a final solution that is both very surprising and yet quite obvious – after the fact. The study of artistic painting led me to understand that my earlier version of color integrity was exactly equivalent to the practice of adding various amounts of black to a palette color to produce the darker shades of the same color for a painting and that this in turn was exactly equivalent to lowering the light level on the original scene. Adding black does not change colors and so using it to preserve color integrity seemed obvious and that led me to explore adding white, which also does not change colors. I was amazed to find that adding white was exactly equivalent to using the correct blackpoint adjustment! This completely explained the blackpoint mystery. Adding white by various means in painting is used to produce glare in highlights and also to produce fog effects. Indeed, it is exactly equivalent to the presence of fog in the original scene. Thus the blackpoint adjustment can be used to increase or decrease the level of fog in a photographic scene, which it can do with marvelous accuracy. However, this requires the correct blackpoint adjustment. Photoshop and other image editing programs normally do the blackpoint adjustment incorrectly and so visibly damage color integrity long before significant fog can be added to or removed from an image.

Still, at this point I had discovered the solution to maintaining color integrity in an image – by simply adding or removing black or white – and it was mathematically obvious how this simple rule could be extended to deal with color balance while maintaining color integrity."

Last edited by marameo; 01-03-2017 at 01:56 PM.
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  #126  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:05 AM
Shoku Shoku is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
Pantone for skin? Why? Seems silly.
Pantone is silly, for many reasons. A collection of color books that seem to change from year to year with new versions, that gives designers false confidence in how those colors will reproduce in print. Pantone has done more to make color confusing than any other process I have had to correct for clients.

Glad to see you do have use for LAB - in that past your arguments seemed to indicate otherwise.
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  #127  
Old 01-05-2017, 11:12 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Yes, I have a lot of uses for Lab (it's part of the fundamentals of ICC color management, the PCS etc). Converting to Lab? Totally unnecessary. Using Lab as an unambiguous numeric scale for perceived colors (with some warts)? It's useful.
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  #128  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:18 PM
Shoku Shoku is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

I have read through all the comments - amazing where discussion of this subject can go.

Bottom line -> we should understand each color space before we use them.

Whether device dependent or not, each color space, when used for editing, is limited by the following:
1. how each space is designed.
3. how each channel in that space affects the overall appearance, either on-screen, or in print.

Numbers are good to understand if you are in the color ballpark (and how well your monitor is displaying mages, or how well those images will reproduce in print), but in the end everything comes down to what we see in the final product. And that means we also need to understand the final output potential, which is why retouching is an art as much as a science.
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  #129  
Old 01-05-2017, 07:27 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

CIELab was not invented nor intended for image editing and this was done long before digital imaging or Photoshop existed. CIE colorimetry is a reliable tool for predicting if two given solid colors will match when viewed in very precisely defined conditions. It is not, and was never intended to be a tool for predicting how those two colors will actually appear to the human observer. Lab is useful for predicting the degree to which two sets of tristimulus values will match under very precisely defined conditions that never occur in natural images.
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