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How to apply Pantone skin tones

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  #11  
Old 01-25-2016, 05:39 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
I think Andrews point is that you do not need to convert to Lab or CMYK and back but use the Lab (therefore constant values across working spaces) values in the Info palette readout.
Exactly, work by the numbers in the current color working space. And while Lab is really easy, this can be done in RGB too with a bit less precision and the need to concentrate on three values, once you get the overall concept of the ratio. Necessary in Lightroom before thankfully we got Lab readouts in version 5:
http://digitaldog.net/files/LR_Skintone_Ratio.jpg
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:12 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

With all due respect Andrew, there is no "one" skin tone, so while those values CAN make much sense, those are not the only relations between values that work for olive, pink, somalian, whatever specific type skin tones. There are image tints, color falloff, tonal variables... reflections... infinite number of options.

Getting to know which tone/color combinations look good is something that comes with developing your skills and it takes time. Going by numbers is a good idea, and I find it really easy if you go by the HSB, LAB, CMYK, RGB, and in that order. It's just more intuitive with HSB and LAB, and you can get those readouts no matter which profile you're actually working in.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:24 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
With all due respect Andrew, there is no "one" skin tone, so while those values CAN make much sense, those are not the only relations between values that work for olive, pink, somalian, whatever specific type skin tones.
It's not the value per se, it's the RATIO you need to pay attention to in both RGB and Lab! And you'd be well advised to have a really good, calibrated display and examine color in context. Something no profile or set of pixel values can provide!

In Lab, the aStar and bStar values are key. Both should be positive values. Both should be within 15 units of each other. If the B value is lower than A, skin starts to appear magenta or pink looking. When B is higher than A the skin appears more yellow. The closer to zero, the more pale.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:54 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

It's often the case, BUT NOT A RULE. And there so many images that disproof that theory. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying you are right, but then there are also many other ways of being right. Skin can be cyan and look good, same goes for red, pink, yellow, magenta... there are many possibilities to split tone an image etc. It's all about fitting the overall palette.

That 75% sugar 10% spice 5% nice = good skin tone... well not necessarily.
Like saying hue should be between 23 and 28. Doesn't really mean much unless it works for the WB of the image, or even the creative direction of the image which could be completely unrelated to the original.

Last edited by skoobey; 01-25-2016 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:02 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
HSB is not the same thing at all.

The individual HSB values change depending the RGB colour space you are working in. Whereas lab is device independent and the L* a* b* values will remain the same whatever flavour of working space you use (and appearance should remain the same within the gamut limits of that space).

I think Andrews point is that you do not need to convert to Lab or CMYK and back but use the Lab (therefore constant values across working spaces) values in the Info palette readout.
Because it's so hard to just convert the reference images and put them in the same profile...

Fact is HSB is easy to understand, next comes LAB, then CMYK and RGB is the least intuitive. HSB/LAB are the way humans think anyway, and CMYK and RGB are just ways for us to make prints/show things on the screen. If you can go by numbers in LAB or HSB, and you sure can, then why not.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:03 PM
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Newbie Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
It's often the case, BUT NOT A RULE. And there so many images that disproof that theory.
By all means, provide them (as I did from reference images of many differing skintones).

The numbers are a guide. As is the preview on-screen IF the display is well calibrated and profiled. You'd be a fool to lock down numbers which only represent a tiny portion of an image when it looks bad on-screen. The display preview and the numbers more often than not, back each other up. Unless you're working on a grayscale display, use both tools; what you see in context and what the numbers tell you.

Or ignore the numbers if you wish, fine with me.
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:05 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
Because it's so hard to just convert the reference images and put them in the same profile...
Unnecessary, time consuming and damaging. There's ZERO reason to convert the data. IF you're working by the numbers, they are provided in any and all color spaces in Lab, in Photoshop and Lightroom!
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2016, 07:11 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
Because it's so hard to just convert the reference Fact is HSB is easy to understand, next comes LAB, then CMYK and RGB is the least intuitive.
Not a fact, your opinion. RGB is very simple in well behaved RGB working spaces. For example, when all values are equal, you've got a neutral. That's absolutely NOT the case with CMYK! Yet for you, CMYK is 'more intuitive' than RGB. I think using a highly device dependant output color space for some press or printing device is a silly set of values compared to a Quasi-Device Independent RGB working space where all behave the same in terms of black, white neutrals and yes, even skin tones.

In terms of skin, Lab only asks you to understand two simple sets of values (aStar and bStar). And that's true for all color spaces where Lab values can easily be provided from those color spaces. CMYK? Considering the millions of flavors of CMYK, there's nothing I (and I suspect others) find intuitive and of course, if you really do understand CMYK, black generation alone moves the goal lines for every CMYK space you may have a profile to define.

Convert to CMYK to work with skin tones? Absolutely unnecessary. And prone to give most users a royal headache.
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2016, 07:54 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

That's all great to know... tell me, is there skin in these images? Are these examples of bad retouching? They must be terrible since your formula doesn't work all the time... I am trying to point out that it's about the whole image. Product or whatever color can dictate the direction, but there are many "correct" color ratios to use as skin color, not to mention that skin color varies so much within the image, it's not one color all over.

tumblr_mywu3pIr5T1s8sjgto1_500.jpg

12357432_863847310380618_1172817874_n.jpg

day8.jpg

aaa.jpg

bbbb.jpg

I never said to convert anythign to CMYK for no reason...
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2016, 08:00 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
That's all great to know... tell me, is there skin in these images?
No. And all are truly awful.
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