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How to apply Pantone skin tones

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  #41  
Old 01-27-2016, 10:36 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
...
I think the following link demonstrate a good gradient map that does what you suggest.
Yes, that demonstrates a gradient map with 4 areas and those areas could be from a real world image where you have sampled colours and of course could be saved as a new named gradient.

As to Pantone you can get more info but it will cost you $229 at a special offer rate
http://www.pantone.com/color-bridge-coated-uncoated

Once again not needed IMO to most photographer / retouchers.

"The Pantone Matching System was devised to meet the needs of graphic designers who want to use a solid spot or special colour in their designs. If a print job only requires one or two colours, for example, when printing business stationery, then it would be more economical to use two inks instead of the four colours used in process printing; cyan, magenta, yellow and black.


The system uses a small number of inks which can be mixed according to a recipe book of colour swatches. These inks are physically mixed prior to going on a printing press, whereas, process printing uses half-screen dots of CMYK colours to create the illusion of solid colours in the human eye.
The Pantone system makes it easy to specify a colour using a unique number, and a very close match can be produced across the world using the same recipe of standard inks.
A wider range of colours can be produced with this system that are more vibrant and vivid than what can be produced using standard four colour process printing. Metallic and fluorescent inks are also available.
However, care must be taken when selecting colours for company branding and logo design because many Pantone colours cannot be matched to CMYK process colours or RGB for display on a computer monitor. A logo designer should choose Pantone inks from the 'color bridge' swatch book with a close match to a process colour to ensure consistency across all printed material."
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  #42  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:04 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
One more question about skin tone; can someone explain what happens when in the channel mixer I set red and green to zero and blue to +100 in each channel and then blend the adjustment layer on mulitply mode? What's the point in pushing the blue channel in multiply mode? Sometimes on top of that I see a second untouched curve adjustment blended in multiply mode. Those layers in multiply mode are normaly lowered in opacity.

Thanks
Result you get is the same thing as if you were to make every channel same as blue via apply image. Because the R G and B values are the same the result is a black and white image. Now, multiply works just as in any other instance by multiplying values of the resulting black and white with whatever is below. Because it's an adjustment layer, you get the benefit of everything underneath still remaining editable.

This can be useful for pulling additional information but I use it to make someone "tan", then dnb to make it look more pleasing. "Tan" comes from the fact that it's a multiplied result and the fact that the B is the darkest channel in the skin area simply because skin is mostly red.
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  #43  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:19 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

'Most' skin tone should fit within Adobe RGB (1998) if not sRGB. In my Gamut video, I have two examples (to directly to 21:30)*
Here's a gamut plot of just the skin tone shown of the sunset image within Adobe RGB (1998):
http://digitaldog.net/files/RobbsSkinProPhotoGamut.jpg
In my Gamut video, the portrait of Jack falls easily within sRGB. The sunset shot of Robb is pretty saturated and as seen above, falls within Adobe RGB (1998). ALL the plots started as raw data, then get processed in Lightroom and encoded into ProPhoto RGB (what else?) but the skin alone while IN ProPhoto RGB can be plotted compared to either sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998). In the example I provided here, the larger, somewhat transparent shape is Adobe RGB (1998) but this data doesn't clip in sRGB either!

* Everything you thought you wanted to know about color gamut

A pretty exhaustive 37 minute video examining the color gamut of RGB working spaces, images and output color spaces. All plotted in 2D and 3D to illustrate color gamut.

High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/ColorGamut.mov
Low Res (YouTube): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0bxSD-Xx-Q
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  #44  
Old 01-27-2016, 01:10 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by skoobey View Post
This can be useful for pulling additional information but I use it to make someone "tan", then dnb to make it look more pleasing. "Tan" comes from the fact that it's a multiplied result and the fact that the B is the darkest channel in the skin area simply because skin is mostly red.
So if I add a curve adjustment layer between the channel mixer layer and the multiply-midtones layer I can play with the "tan" adding or removing blue/yellow, red/cyan and green/magenta (and I would be tempted to bring down the blue and green curves and maybe add a touch of red); result is I get close to the lab ratios mentioned before.

Can this replace the gradient map for correcting skin color?

I am interested in the ability of this technique for pulling additional information also. The overall image seems to have better balance.

Last edited by marameo; 01-27-2016 at 01:19 PM.
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  #45  
Old 01-27-2016, 01:22 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

I have seen Andrews video in the past and would say that it is very good i.e. interesting and very informative. I urge anyone reading this thread to spend a little over 1/2 hour to watch.

Dispelling the myth that all skin colour fits within sRGB opened my mind to something I previously just accepted
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  #46  
Old 01-27-2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
CMYK is a highly device dependent color space meaning it's based on inks, a paper, the conditions of a device that makes the colored output. Every device can be different and produce different values of the same color appearance, Lab doesn't. That's why there are thousands if not more recipes for CMYK to produce the same color appearance! The very opposite is true for Lab.
I understand that but if we are talking about ratios is there still a difference?

The following is a description of the Caucasian Skin in cmyk "thinking":

Both Yellow (Y) and Magenta (M) should be about the same, slightly more Yellow is fine – it make the skin look warmer, but the difference should be more than about 10-15. Cyan (C) should be about a quarter to a fifth of the Magenta value. There should be no Black (K).

comparing to the "recipe" you provided earlier:

In Lab, the aStar and bStar values are key. Both should be positive values. Both should be within 15 units of each other. If the B value is lower than A, skin starts to appear magenta or pink looking. When B is higher than A the skin appears more yellow.
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  #47  
Old 01-27-2016, 02:08 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by marameo View Post
I understand that but if we are talking about ratios is there still a difference?
Yes! The ratio's are fixed in Lab, not in CMYK because again, CMYK is based on very specific output conditions. Just look at the values and ratio's based on say SWOP V2 and ISO and PS4 CMYK.

A picture is worth 1000 words, here's three CMYK sets of values for the same skin tone which all differ while Lab remains fixed:

http://digitaldog.net/files/skinCMYKvalues.jpg

Why deal with four values that differ in one color model based on the output that differs when you can concentrate on only 2 which work in any color model or color space? What's easier about CMYK in that respect? Answer: Nothing.

Quote:
There should be no Black (K).
Well that's clearly incorrect IF you view the above Seps.
And as I stated, the CMYK black generation used will play a huge role here!
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  #48  
Old 01-27-2016, 05:51 PM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
And as I stated, the CMYK black generation used will play a huge role here!
Proof of concept and something anyone here can test using the (awful) Photoshop CMYK color engine from years past. You don't need software to create ICC profiles to illustrate that the CMYK numbers are all over the planet when targeted using the same colorants and aim point, but just alter black gen as seen below:

http://digitaldog.net/files/BlackGenCMYK_Skin.jpg

Yeah, CMYK is about as intuitive as doing brain surgery and trying to decide: Which is better for removing a brain tumor? A Black and Decker cordless screwdriver, or the thingie on Swiss Army Knives for taking stones outta horses' hooves?
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  #49  
Old 01-27-2016, 06:17 PM
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Thumbs up Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

Quote:
Originally Posted by marameo View Post
So if I add a curve adjustment layer between the channel mixer layer and the multiply-midtones layer I can play with the "tan" adding or removing blue/yellow, red/cyan and green/magenta (and I would be tempted to bring down the blue and green curves and maybe add a touch of red); result is I get close to the lab ratios mentioned before.

Can this replace the gradient map for correcting skin color?

I am interested in the ability of this technique for pulling additional information also. The overall image seems to have better balance.
No. Multiplying the blue values is there to darken things, yes it affect's the color but it is NOT a color correction method. It's a method to make skin darker by pulling the brightness levels from the blue channel. It does NOT replace gradient maps, in fact it is completely different. Let me explain.

There are 2 ways of affecting color in PS:

1.Pushing existing colors. And for that we use adjustment layers like curves, color balance, selective color, channel mixer, levels, hue/sat(but hue/sat only if the "colorize" option is not activated within it). All of those can be used for other things, but when set to "color" blending mode they affect color. BUT they affect it by pushing the already present color values.

2.Second way of affecting color is INTRODUCING NEW COLOR. Examples of these are Gradient maps, painting color on a new layer set to color mode or with a brush in color mode on an existing layer, solid color, gradient, hue/sat with "colorize" option activated. All of those can be used for other things as well, but setting the blending mode of the layer to "color" will affect the color, and that's what we're talking about here. They replace existing color with the one you've set, they don't preserve existing color transitions.

You use masks for both methods in order only to affect areas you want to, but play around and you'll see that behavior is quite different.
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  #50  
Old 01-28-2016, 02:15 AM
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Re: How to apply Pantone skin tones

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
A picture is worth 1000 words, here's three CMYK sets of values for the same skin tone which all differ while Lab remains fixed:

http://digitaldog.net/files/skinCMYKvalues.jpg

Yes, they all differ. Also, I notice that if (B*) is higher (A*) than (Y) is always higher than (M) notwithstanding the CMYK sets. So far my ideal skin tone is between 10 and 25 in (B*) with (A*) a few points lower than (B*). When (L) is higher the 70 (K) goes to zero (depending on the CMYK set).

I think I will stick with thinking in LAB and have a look at CMYK from time to time.
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