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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Request for assistance with problem restoration.

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  #11  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:14 PM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

I agree that it is better practice to get the best at the acquisition stage either camera or scan and minimise the work in post.

For me to normalise a scan is to correct at the scan stage for any colour, exposure deficiencies, at least as far as the scan software will allow me to adjust the individual R G and B channels to get the best balance and possibly the composite RGB for contrast. Ideally if possible using a Curves adjustment.

It is a long time since I scanned anything and while I have used Vuescan I seem to revert naturally to Epson scan

Although not a scan the attachment may illustrate my working on an image that is underexposed. Just imagine the left hand column shows a scan of a reversal film and that film isunderexposed by around 2 stops. The RGB histogram show the state of the scan without any intervention.

Wanting to get the best scan out of this image I move the black and white points on the histogram inwards for each channel. I would also be careful to leave a little headroom for further processing and make sure I did not clip any important information. There are/may be limits to the scan software ability to control to a fine degree the image and I would expect to do the final tweaks in PS
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File Type: jpg ScanNormalised.jpg (116.4 KB, 11 views)
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  #12  
Old 04-16-2018, 03:00 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Just curious.

When scanning Photos, Slides, Negatives, or anything, the purpose is to get the best possible scan of the Original that can be work on non-destructively.

Towards that goal, I have always been told to turn off all automatic scanner enhancement settings and anything that auto fixes. No sharpness, no levels, no tone or saturation adjustment, no brightness or contrast adjustment, no dust & scratch removal, no descreen or denoising or despeckle, no color adjustment, no auto anything. If you make adjustments during the scan, the scanner makes blanketed, overall, averaged out modifications instead of selective modifications and may overwrite/change some useful information that cannot be retrieved . Save the raw scan preferably as an uncompressed tiff or psd at full size.

Once you have the best possible scan of the original all modifications can and should be made non-destructively in Photoshop or appropriate image processing software. If there are a number of slides/photos that may require basically the same modifications, an action could be made to speed the process and save steps.

Am I wrong with these assumptions?
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:51 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0lBaldy View Post
Just curious.

When scanning Photos, Slides, Negatives, or anything, the purpose is to get the best possible scan of the Original that can be work on non-destructively.

Towards that goal, I have always been told to turn off all automatic scanner enhancement settings and anything that auto fixes. No sharpness, no levels, no tone or saturation adjustment, no brightness or contrast adjustment, no dust & scratch removal, no descreen or denoising or despeckle, no color adjustment, no auto anything. If you make adjustments during the scan, the scanner makes blanketed, overall, averaged out modifications instead of selective modifications and may overwrite/change some useful information that cannot be retrieved . Save the raw scan preferably as an uncompressed tiff or psd at full size.

Once you have the best possible scan of the original all modifications can and should be made non-destructively in Photoshop or appropriate image processing software. If there are a number of slides/photos that may require basically the same modifications, an action could be made to speed the process and save steps.

Am I wrong with these assumptions?
In my opinion: you should not trust my opinion. Having said that I am in agreement with your view. It presents just one difficulty for me in my work flow: dust removal.

If I don't do dust removal in Vuescan (workflow is: scan at 64 bit RGBI; output to raw tif file; use that raw tif file as input to a scan with infra-red cleaning; output to 48 it tif) then 1). I don't know how to use the infra-red channel in Photoshop and 2). Those who do say the results are not as good as Vuescan (but thy don't reveal how they did it).

In addition I have never had a series of slides on which I need to do the same adjustments. Mine are always poor in a unique way!
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:01 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Here is another example from this same film where I just cannot seem to get the colour and tonality right. In this example I have not followed the opinion of setting all the scanner parameters to be at 'zero effect' - I have tried to get the most faithful colour output. Even so my efforts in Photoshop using Levels and Curves are still not acceptable. For example if I get the tonality right, the brightness is way off - too dark by a stop at least. If I correct that then the colours shift. if you know the area in the photo you will know that the colour of the road the horses are on was noticeably red - similar to the colour of Pall Mall today, 50 years on
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2018, 04:50 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Hi OB,
Interesting comments of which I broadly agree, with just a few reservations, but nothing definitive
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0lBaldy View Post
....

When scanning Photos, Slides, Negatives, or anything, the purpose is to get the best possible scan of the Original that can be work on non-destructively.
Agreed

Quote:
Towards that goal, I have always been told to turn off all automatic scanner enhancement settings and anything that auto fixes. No sharpness, no levels, no tone or saturation adjustment, no brightness or contrast adjustment, no dust & scratch removal, no descreen or denoising or despeckle, no color adjustment, no auto anything.
My preference the same all auto fixes off - however with knowledge of the scanner and the media manual intervention is not necessarily a bad thing.

Quote:
If you make adjustments during the scan, the scanner makes blanketed, overall, averaged out modifications instead of selective modifications and may overwrite/change some useful information that cannot be retrieved. Save the raw scan preferably as an uncompressed tiff or psd at full size.
If you do wish to make adjustments based on the pre scan image you should not encounter issues as long as you set your parameters to include all the data contained in the original. For instance, if you use Curves or Levels to equalize the black and white points for each channel leaving a little room before clipping the scanner should not modify or overwrite any information.
Saving the scan as TIFF is probably the safe option and also there are no problems with the lossless TIFF compressions

Quote:
Once you have the best possible scan of the original all modifications can and should be made non-destructively in Photoshop or appropriate image processing software. If there are a number of slides/photos that may require basically the same modifications, an action could be made to speed the process and save steps.
It is highly likely that you will end up in some editing software particularly if you have turned off all auto stuff even if it is only for sharpening and noise reduction.

Quote:
Am I wrong with these assumptions?
I do not think so you just have a slightly different take on certain aspects. As long as the workflow 'catches mice' we may be just splitting hairs suggesting overall superiority of one method over the other. Well at least without some real world examples to prove a particular point

I have to say that I had forgotton that Vuescan offers a 'raw' format option.

While I understand the theory that 'scanner raw' files offer unaltered image data and may offer optimal information. I do wonder in the case of scanners (at least the low end ones such as Epsons I have used) how much value a so called raw offers over a high resolution TIFF image. One particular advantage may be in batch scanning where using traditional methods of optimising an image, contrast density etc through the scan dialogue tools could fall down as inappropriate settings may be applied to other images in the batch.
A raw scan by its nature should solve this potential problem as no alterations made (other than internal stuff over which you have no control) and in addition to the full 16 bit data per colour channel I believe it will also contain the 16 bit IR channel (assuming scanner has the capability).
In the main what I believe you are doing by raw scanning is seperating acquisition from the processing. That being the case I believe that raises some questions:

1. A raw capture does not guarantee an optimal image by itself, either in camera or scanner, at least if the exposure is incorrect. So how is the exposure arrived at, Scanner automatics or user intervention?

2. Is the end result of raw scanning superior to undertaking a high quality scan to TIFF with the image optimised close for exposure and colour balance?

Accepting that YMMV.

If there is a single 'best approach' I would love to see some real world comparisons comparing images
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:48 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateJunction View Post
Here is another example from this same film where I just cannot seem to get the colour and tonality right. In this example I have not followed the opinion of setting all the scanner parameters to be at 'zero effect' - I have tried to get the most faithful colour output. Even so my efforts in Photoshop using Levels and Curves are still not acceptable. For example if I get the tonality right, the brightness is way off - too dark by a stop at least. If I correct that then the colours shift. if you know the area in the photo you will know that the colour of the road the horses are on was noticeably red - similar to the colour of Pall Mall today, 50 years on
I believe the problem you are seeing in this example is uneven light fading. Possibly caused if the slides have been projected as it appears to me; centre faded much more than edges. See attached for original, slightly brightened and large saturation applied to highlight problems

In this case there is no global fix areas will need to be identified and colour, density corrections made locally - not a quick fix by any means. Not to make too much of it but the JPEG exhibits highlight clipping in all channels. If this is the same on the original TIFF scan then you may wish to revisit scanning to see how much information you are losing
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:17 PM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony W View Post
I believe the problem you are seeing in this example is uneven light fading. Possibly caused if the slides have been projected as it appears to me; centre faded much more than edges. See attached for original, slightly brightened and large saturation applied to highlight problems

In this case there is no global fix areas will need to be identified and colour, density corrections made locally - not a quick fix by any means. Not to make too much of it but the JPEG exhibits highlight clipping in all channels. If this is the same on the original TIFF scan then you may wish to revisit scanning to see how much information you are losing
That's an interesting analysis. Yes, the slide has been projected but not for a lengthy period of time. I suppose it may have been viewed at most 10 times when being projected. But knowing my style (quite averse to boring other people with my slides), coupled with the obvious lack of any real photographic interest in this snap, means that it has had probably no more than a minute in total in front of the light. It really is not worth any great investment of restoration effort.

What I should like to know is how you managed to get the middle jpeg of the 3 in your posting. I couldn't seem to find a way to get this level of 'brightness' without severely changing the colour balance. What did you do?
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2018, 02:36 AM
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Re: Request for assistance with problem restoratio

I’m pretty sure that it would have been a curves layer adjustmet
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