Including layers will increase file size?

[bestremera]

Very confused and need some help.
Why does this popup appear when saving tiffs that have no layers?
I've been processing images, first in Photomatix, save as 16bit tif, then open in RAW, make some changes, save as grayscalle, then finish in Photoshop CS3.
I change the Mode from grayscale (a RAW conversion to b&w in Bridge) to RGB and from 8bit to 16bit.
Most images close without issue after these changes and adding the word 'final' to the image file. No problem.
But sometimes, I get the popup alert when closing that 'Including layers will increase file size', even though there are no layers. It makes the file size jump from 65mb to 130mb.
It must be a function of the tif saving options dialogue box but I have no idea what I am doing differently to cause this to happen.
Thanks for the help.
Bob

[creativeretouch]

Originally Posted by bestremera

Very confused and need some help.
Why does this popup appear when saving tiffs that have no layers?
I've been processing images, first in Photomatix, save as 16bit tif, then open in RAW, make some changes, save as grayscalle, then finish in Photoshop CS3.
I change the Mode from grayscale (a RAW conversion to b&w in Bridge) to RGB and from 8bit to 16bit.
Most images close without issue after these changes and adding the word 'final' to the image file. No problem.
But sometimes, I get the popup alert when closing that 'Including layers will increase file size', even though there are no layers. It makes the file size jump from 65mb to 130mb.
It must be a function of the tif saving options dialogue box but I have no idea what I am doing differently to cause this to happen.
Thanks for the help.
Bob

Bob, I use CS3 as well and sometimes I have same problem. Usually I close the saving dialog and then do "flatten image" - and after this I can save my file without problems.

[mistermonday]

The tiff algorithms work differently. They compress 8 bit images very well but most of the time 16 bit image file size will increase - up to 2x. Try saving as tiff with no compression for 16 bit.
Regards, Murray

[creativeretouch]

Originally Posted by mistermonday

The tiff algorithms work differently. They compress 8 bit images very well but most of the time 16 bit image file size will increase - up to 2x. Try saving as tiff with no compression for 16 bit.
Regards, Murray

Murray, I keep my files uncompressed (16 bit) and occasionally I have this problem too.

[bestremera]

I do use the 'no compression' option. I'll try the 'flatten image' trick. It will be interesting to see if I have that option if I have no visible layers to flatten!
Thanks, Bob

[Der_W]

If the only layer in your document is not the background layer (not a floating layer either), you'll get the warning.
Probably tiff saves the file differently when it thinks there are layers, than without layers (but double file size is pretty odd anyways!).

Instead of flattening first, you could as well use "Discard layers" option, that should do the same.

[mistermonday]

As Jonas points out, if you have converted the background to a layer, it is cached and you either need to Flatten the file (that option will be available to you in the usual ways) or uncheck the save layers box in which case the Save as Copy will be automatically checked and you will recv a msg as a warning. Otherwise your saved tiff file will be twice the size as if you had saved it as a flattened tiff or .psd.
Regards, Murray

[bestremera]

I never tried to flatten the file after I got the popup because I did not have a visible additional layer. I see that PS might somehow 'add' a layer. I'll go home and see what happens if I flatten the file before trying to close.
Thanks, Bob

[bestremera]

Success. It seems PS creates a layer around the original image layer when I do certain, secret operations. 'Flatten layer' was an option that removed an outline around the image thumbnail of the 'layer 0'. All is right with the world.
Thanks, Bob

[Janet Petty]

Make sure that you also discard all alpha channels when you save as a tiff or other programs will not open them properly. The pictures will look as if they have cutouts in them or not open at all.

Janet