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  #1  
Old 01-13-2012, 09:02 PM
rlualhati rlualhati is offline
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Reveal All

Hello all. First post....be gentile!

I have a question about the Reveal All command in Photoshop CS5 when used after cropping (Hide Option selected).

I start with an image 12.907" x 8.64", 3872x2592 pixels, 300 ppi.

I crop to a 7"x5" size at 300ppi, selecting the "Hide" instead of "Delete" radio button. The resulting pixel dimensions are 2100x1500.

So from what I understand from the "Reveal All," it should return your image to a pre-crop condition.

However, when I check the Image Size, it is at 9.84" x 6.587", 2592x1976, 300ppi. Am I doing something wrong?

How come it didn't return back to the original dimensions?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!!
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2012, 09:24 PM
rlualhati rlualhati is offline
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Re: Reveal All

Correction....after "Reveal All," the document dimensions were 9.84" x 6.587", 2952x1976, 300ppi. I transposed the numbers.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:46 AM
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John Wheeler John Wheeler is offline
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Re: Reveal All

Hi rlualhati

The crop tool and its nuances always gets me as well. I don't know if to call it a mind bender or just that it is poorly documented.

First as a reminder reference Pixels = Inches x dpi

You might get the impression that when you use the crop tool and set the parameters to 7in x 5in at 300 dpi that it is going to crop out 2100px x 1500px out of the original 3872px x 2592px. That is not what it does.

A better way to think about the crop tool is that the corner to corner dimensions select a pixel area out of the original total pixels and an Image Resize is run on those pixels. Here are the rules that the crop tool follows (all IMHO of course) once the user has selected the new pixel boundaries:

Note: If both the height and width dimensions are specified, the aspect ratio of the crop is constrained

1) If W and H and dpi are left blank then the Dpi remains the same and the calculated new inch dimensions are just Inches = Pixels Cropped / Original Dpi (no re-sampling occurs). Doing a Reveal All after this operation again keeps the same Dpi and reverts back to the original inches and the same number of pixels.

2) If either W or H are specified and the Dpi is left blank then the inch dimensions are assigned to the associated edge and the Dpi is recalculated as Dpi = Pixels cropped/Inches assigned (no re-sampling occurs). Do a Reveal All after these steps would preserve the new Dpi, the original pixels would be the same, yet the Inches per edge would have changed to accommodate the new Dpi.

3) If either W or H are specified "and" the Dpi is also specified the the cropped pixel area is re-sampled to new pixel dimensions (also meaning that in your case, the original total pixels that are partially hidden on each edge will change as well). The new number of pixels for the cropped area the user selected will be:
New Pixels for Cropped Area = Inches assigned on edge x assigned Dpi
(re-sampling does occur in case #3).

Specifically by reverse engineering the numbers here is what you did with the crop tool.
  • Your crop within the original pixels was about 2755px x 1968px or about 6.56in x 9.18in (again of the original image).
  • With that cropped area the crop tool then re-sampled so that these pixels were converted to 2100px x 1500px so that at 300 dpi this would equate to 7in x 5in. This was the step that also converted/re-sampled your original image pixels to be 2953px x 1976px

If you want to not change the original pixels of the image, just leave the dpi box blank as in case #2 above. The edge dimensions of the cropped area will be scaled to 7in x 5in and the Dpi will be adjusted so that there is no re-sampling. In this case, doing a Reveal All command will resort back to the same number of pixels yet with new dimensions because the dpi has been adjusted. You would need to manually change the Dpi back to 300 with Image Resize to go back to the original 12.907in x 8.64in.

Note: If you want to be able to crop exactly the 2100px x 1500px from the original image, I don't know how to do that with the Crop Tool (except very careful positioning) yet you can do that with the rectangular marquee tool. If you want to preserve the original pixels, just convert the image to a Smart Object before you do the crop and it will always be there. Hope this helps. Also, if I have this wrong, will any forum member please jump in and correct my post - thanks.

Last edited by John Wheeler; 01-14-2012 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:15 AM
rlualhati rlualhati is offline
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Re: Reveal All

Wow! Thanks so much.

I understood just about everything except for the following:

How did you reverse engineer the "2755px x 1968px or about 6.56in x 9.18in" numbers?

Your explanation led me to realize that I was re-sizing my pixels -- exactly like clicking "Resample Image" in the Image Size dialogue box. I'm not sure why I didn't see the correlation in the first place. Currently, I definitely do not want to be re-sampling my images.

The reason why I am asking about this is that I want to be able to use the same .psd file to produce either 5x7 images and/or 8x10 images. I would like to avoid saving new copies for each image size to avoid multiple document management. It looked like it was going to work until the "Crop" and "Reveal All" re-sized my image.

This could be grounds for another thread, but is that even rational? I am looking to sell some prints of an image in both 5x7 and 8x10. HOWEVER, I want them to be of identical composition -- which I am not sure is possible yet.

My solution is to crop one image to 5x7. Then, throw some guides on there to mark the edges. When I want to produce an 8x10, I plan on doing a "Reveal All" to bring back the original image. And with my guides there to show what the 5x7 crop looked like, I could then re-crop the original image to 8x10 in a similar fashion. I would prefer to not alter the composition between a 5x7 and 8x10 picture.

That was my plan. I'm not quite the Photoshop professional, so that's my work-around. I'm sure there's a more elegant way to accomplish this -- if anyone wants to share, that'd be great!!!

Thanks again.
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  #5  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:22 AM
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John Wheeler John Wheeler is offline
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Re: Reveal All

Hi rlualhati
My apologies because I did not properly first welcome you to the forums. I forgot that it was your first post so WELCOME

There multiple ways to achieve your objective. If you want all of the changes you make to your base image to apply to all cropping ratios with good space efficiency for the file here is one way:

1)Turn your image into a Smart Object (I hope you have a version of Photoshop that supports Smart Objects)
2) Use the rectangular Marquee tool with either a fixed ratio or fixed pixel size depending on what you want e.g. fixed ratio of 5x7
3)Save that Selection named appropriately such as 5x7
4)Use Image > Crop (don't worry your pixels are still there)
5) Delete the Working selection
6) Go back and use Image > Reveal All (yes it works for cropped Smart Ojbects as well )
7) Repeat at step 2 for other crop ratios

Now, anytime you pull up the image you can Reveal All, then pull up the desired selection you want for a particular size and use the Image > Crop command.

Now, when you want to make changes to the base image, just double click on the Smart Object, make changes in the Smart Object, and be sure to save the Smart Object using File L Save so it sticks with the original image.

One more big advantage. Once you crop the Smart Object, you can use the move tool and move Smart Object around underneath the crop just like you could have by using the Crop Tool with the Hide option. Unfortunately, in this example it moves the Smart Object equally for all prior saved selections you made.

There are other similar approaches if you want to treat each crop size more independently yet thought this would be a good start.

Hope this helps.

A COUPLE ADDED EDITS:
- Forgot to mention that when you want to change to a different crop ratio, you just Reveal All, Load the crop selection desired that you saved, and use Image > Crop

- As far as the reverse engineering, you provided both the original image pixel dimensions and the resampled final pixel dimensions (after the Reveal All). The ratio of those two by each edge was the ratio that I scaled the original image pixels and dimensions to come up with the numbers of what was actually cropped relative to the original image pixels and dimensions.

Last edited by John Wheeler; 01-14-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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  #6  
Old 01-15-2012, 09:07 AM
rlualhati rlualhati is offline
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Re: Reveal All

Thanks!! Very helpful!
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