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Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

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  #11  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:11 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Specifically - you're overthinking it. No way 32 bit is necessary. You're making your life harder.

I worked on cars and we had to change the colors to match all the options and never did I use 32 bit.
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2017, 06:21 PM
Spittle Spittle is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Skoobey, clearly you're equally passionate and also as opinionated as I am on this matter.
(I meant that light heartedly)

Out of interest - how would you subtract a light select pass, or reflections in 16bit?
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2017, 07:31 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

You render the portion with reflection with lower exposure settings, just like with any other photography.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:18 PM
Spittle Spittle is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

By rendering 32bits you can simply edit that in PS. Meaning less test renders and faster output. You could use the photographer philosophy too but with 32bit you gain the flexibility where you can mix the two if required.

Like I said in my first post - my comp is 16bit. I use 32bit only when I need to, but as a minimum I use it for tonemapping, glare/bloom on the beauty pass, and to resize all of the render elements to final output size.


Note:

1) the render engine is processing in 32bit so it renders at the same speed even if you save out 16bit.
2) by rendering to 32bit vrimg format, if the farm crashes or whatever then any bucket that had finished would have been saved during the rendering process.
3) you can load the frame buffer back into the software if you need to.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:15 PM
skoobey skoobey is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Then pull what you need from 32 bit, cut the image up and continue in 16bit. PS tools don't work the same way in 32 bit and you're missing on a ton of features.

Where you are doing what I wouldn't is making multiple composites instead of 1 and using smart objects where not needed. You're mentioning farms so I guess it's some sort of furry character or something that you are rendering with a ton of geometry.
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  #16  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:48 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spittle View Post
Note:

1) the render engine is processing in 32bit so it renders at the same speed even if you save out 16bit.
2) by rendering to 32bit vrimg format, if the farm crashes or whatever then any bucket that had finished would have been saved during the rendering process.
3) you can load the frame buffer back into the software if you need to.
I actually agree with you on this, but this workflow has never been particularly well supported by photoshop. I think you're stuck with hacks on this one. I don't particularly see any value in smart objects, given that subsequent changes that involve any kind of painting or partially transparent masking can invalidate much or all of that work anyway. I might save the render passes and write a script to assemble them (even though photoshop's use of javascript is detestable), but my suspicion is that the net gain in using smart objects in this manner is not very good.
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  #17  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:04 PM
Shoku Shoku is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spittle View Post
With respect guys I don't want to get into a debate of whether you think I need to be working in 32bit or not.

I was simply asking for help on something specific.
32bit is not a problem. In fact for rendered output it is very common.

I think maybe there is confusion between 3D rendering bit depth and the bit depth displayed in Photoshop - they refer to different things. I use Lightwave and as you can see the list of the most common format types have 24 and 32 options. 32 is used for alpha channels which are created while rendering (Example 1).

Example 2 is bit depth listed in the Windows property dialog.

Example 3 is the bit depth for the same image in Photoshop.

24 means this image has no alpha channel and therefore no rendered mask.

I am more interested in the initial output size of your render. I usually do low res renders to check everything - even with VPR (Viewport Preview Render). My final output limit is usually 20 x 10 inches at 300ppi (6000 x 3000 pixels). I don't find that cumbersome at all in Photoshop.
Attached Images
File Type: png Example_1.PNG (26.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Example_2.jpg (198.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Example_3.jpg (161.1 KB, 3 views)
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  #18  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:13 PM
Spittle Spittle is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Skoobey - that is what I am currently doing

@ Klev - I agree it's a bit of a hack but up until now I've not found a better way that meets my needs. I could migrate to a nodal package but haven't done so yet. PS is working so far.

@ shoku - I am talking about 32bits(float) per channel.

---

I work in architecture so scenes could be for example an exterior retail shot looking across some gardens. Framed with trees and other vegetation. X number of custom materials and a bunch of assets some of which I may have not used before.

I try to catch as much in 3D as poss but usually try and do just one test render during the day before I submit to the farm.

The linked smart objects as so that I can automatically update the render elements that I'm using throughout my comp (reflections, refractions, spec, diffuse, GI, Light selects etc) when I do a new render and in general the masks have to be updated manually, as these are also rendered.

If I'm soft brushing (often) any masks then I'm happy for these to be upscaled.

If I'm doing any intricate painting or anything destructive then I would (as I am currently always doing) at full resolution.

Which is why I have been upscaling all of my render elements to full res, and then exporting them as 16bit tiffs.
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  #19  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:28 PM
Shoku Shoku is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spittle View Post

@ shoku - I am talking about 32bits(float) per channel.
OK. That makes a difference.

How large are your final renders?

If resizing is the issue with the smart object masks, could you render the scene at full res but in sections, and stitch them together for the final? That way the masks would be created at full res to being with. Or do another render of just the full res alpha channel?
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  #20  
Old 05-17-2017, 10:32 PM
Spittle Spittle is offline
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Re: Workflow improvements - linked smart objects

The only reason for not rendering full res (5000px longest dimension) off the bat is the time is takes for rendering - even when utilizing multiple computers.

So until the client has signed off the final version - it will be submitted half res (or 1/4 depending on how you look at it)
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