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RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

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  #21  
Old 10-25-2009, 01:14 PM
how99 how99 is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

can be perfectly candid? great idea, great teacher, great information, fair price - but mediocre class. too fast on most techniques and yet most of the time felt wasted. really really frustrating. my girlfriend was watching with me and she left early.

here's how you can change it:

1) give people a hand out a few days before class. tell people a) what tools they might want to familiarize themselves with before class and b) outline the steps of some of the more complicated "recipes" ("first i like to open up a new soft light layer. here's how to do it. then i go to gradient. that's under _____. make sure you click ____.")

2) way way too long on one image. come on - we're visual people. we need things to look at!

3) way too much side chatter. philosophical questions at the end if there's time. and don't make so much small talk at the beginning.

4) not enough time spent illustrating a technique. case in point - the very rough skin on her cheek. chris should have spent at least 10 minutes cleaning up an area. i think he did 3 healing moves and a 3 clone moves, both with produced barely noticeable results, and then showed us the finished piece that was completely transformed. hello? it's a class! obviously he doesn't have to do the whole face cause that would take hours but after watching it for two hours i still don't quite get how he made her skin look so good.

5) how i would do it:

bring up an image with one specific problem and spend 10-15 minutes solving that problem and then move on. new image, new problem, new solution. two hours - 8 techniques - and then chit chat ("when is it too much retouching?" "do you have a style?")

for example - bring up a shot of girl with bags under her eyes and solve it using _____

then bring up a shot of model with large pores, and fix a 2"x"2 area using _____ ("here's where i use healing. here's where and how i use clone. here's a good trick ____")

these are the things i struggle with everyday:

large pores

skin at the transition from highlight to shadow, especially on less than perfect skin

skin when light skimming from behind picks up every flaw

hundreds of messy dark hairs at hairline (healing brush just turns them into dark smudges)

hundreds of fine, light hairs on face

retouching bad skin in between dozens of stands of dark hairs that i want to keep.

eyes (bags under eyes as well as opening up eyes and other tricks)

blotchy legs (smoothing without going maxim)

weird armpits

taking down shine when it's blown out white

twisted skin in neck and waist

jowls and necks in older people

odd knees and elbows

pushing in 3d shapes (bumps, bulges, etc) when liquify is not enough

please take these suggestions to heart. the same two hours can easily be 5 times more effective if you make these changes.

howard
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:26 PM
Doug Nelson's Avatar
Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

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Originally Posted by how99 View Post
the same two hours can easily be 5 times more effective if you make these changes.
Then I could charge 5X more!
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  #23  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:55 PM
Andrew Lawrence Andrew Lawrence is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

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Originally Posted by how99 View Post
1) give people a hand out a few days before class. tell people a) what tools they might want to familiarize themselves with before class and b) outline the steps of some of the more complicated "recipes" ("first i like to open up a new soft light layer. here's how to do it. then i go to gradient. that's under _____. make sure you click ____.")
While this is a good idea, it would be very labor intensive for the presenter (they are already spending time preparing the materials, figuring out how to present it, and I think they do a little test run through with doug before hand, and then the 2 hours out of their day on top of that) and there's also no way to know what people will know and what they wont. Also, (in a previous live event) I like how Doug pointed out how someone on these forums once said that this is Retouch "Pro" not Retouch "Amateur" or something. It's important to be familiar enough with photoshop to be able to follow along, now, that doesn't mean you'll know or even be able to remember how to do things and all of the specific steps... keep a notebook nearby to write on, a lot of these things can be looked up too a simple note like "how to create softlight gray layer." That's why these forums are here for you to go and ask questions about the presentation afterwards. Ultimately I think the point of these live events is to give you a realistic inside look to a mostly behind closed doors and to give you creative ideas to try out on your own.

What parts were you un-clear on? I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the techniques perhaps I could help to explain something you might have had difficulty with?

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Originally Posted by how99 View Post
2) way way too long on one image. come on - we're visual people. we need things to look at!
I think that the techniques themselves are interesting enough to hold my attention for a long time. How do you handle retouching if you can't look at an image for an extended period of time? This also creates a whole host of problems when copyrighted images are involved, I'm sure it's complicated enough to be able to clear one image for use in showing these before and after. Think of how complicated it would be to get clearance on multiple images.


Quote:
Originally Posted by how99 View Post
4) not enough time spent illustrating a technique. case in point - the very rough skin on her cheek. chris should have spent at least 10 minutes cleaning up an area. i think he did 3 healing moves and a 3 clone moves, both with produced barely noticeable results, and then showed us the finished piece that was completely transformed. hello? it's a class! obviously he doesn't have to do the whole face cause that would take hours but after watching it for two hours i still don't quite get how he made her skin look so good.
I feel like healing and cloning is a pretty rudimentary to facial retouching and is learned best by doing it yourself and figuring out what works best for you (you could watch Van Gogh do a painting from beginning to end but you wont be able to reproduce it without dedicated practice.) I can also tell you that I clone and heal very little (only parts that I know from experience will have trouble with the softlight layer.) A lot of the magic, I promise you, will come after lots of work with the softlight layer. I could hardly believe the transformations when I first started (and you might not notice much of a result until far into it.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by how99 View Post
for example - bring up a shot of girl with bags under her eyes and solve it using _____

then bring up a shot of model with large pores, and fix a 2"x"2 area using _____ ("here's where i use healing. here's where and how i use clone. here's a good trick ____")
Again, comes from experience mostly, it's not just a simple formula applying to all situations... feeling it out for yourself is the best way. Plus I would rather not have time wasted on things like these when I know they are easily found with a google search and a little bit of practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by how99 View Post
these are the things i struggle with everyday:

large pores

skin at the transition from highlight to shadow, especially on less than perfect skin

skin when light skimming from behind picks up every flaw

hundreds of messy dark hairs at hairline (healing brush just turns them into dark smudges)

hundreds of fine, light hairs on face

retouching bad skin in between dozens of stands of dark hairs that i want to keep.

eyes (bags under eyes as well as opening up eyes and other tricks)

blotchy legs (smoothing without going maxim)

weird armpits

taking down shine when it's blown out white

twisted skin in neck and waist

jowls and necks in older people

odd knees and elbows

pushing in 3d shapes (bumps, bulges, etc) when liquify is not enough

please take these suggestions to heart. the same two hours can easily be 5 times more effective if you make these changes.

howard
Agree that these things I deal with all the time that still cause problems a lot. But I don't think that it would be feasible to fit all of this into one show. I'd rather consecrate in one area and have separate shows for the different ones.
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  #24  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:05 PM
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PixelPurfect PixelPurfect is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

I thought the original broadcast was more informative than this re-broadcast. It had better flow.

I also don't recall the host talking so much the first time. I find that I am often impressed by how much the host knows about retouching, but I really didnt' enroll to learn that. :o)~

I enrolled (twice) to learn everything 'Christino' is willing to share!

How about less moderating and a lot more educating!

David
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  #25  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:08 PM
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Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/faq...rp_live_shutup
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:12 PM
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PixelPurfect PixelPurfect is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

Ahh, then you should charge 5x less.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2009, 01:44 AM
Andrew Lawrence Andrew Lawrence is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

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Originally Posted by PixelPurfect View Post
Ahh, then you should charge 5x less.
Haha, yeah $2 wouldn't be too bad would it? But honestly, the stuff you'll learn in these $10 retouching events is far more informative and enlightening than you'll ever learn in those 4 hour $100 photoshop seminairs/workshops that cater to people who've never used curves before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Nelson View Post
That url link is hilarious Doug! You really had me cracking up wit the _shutup at the end of it.

Now I'm all for suggestions on how to make these things better/more streamlined, but it surprises me how upset some people are getting over such a great opportunity, and for only $10?

You could spend lots and lots more on photoshop books and useless events presented by people who make their living off teaching 2nd rate techniques. (In all fairness a lot of these guys are very smart and have a lot of knowledge, and I think a lot of their stuff works great for your average hobbyist, but as far as beauty retouching and commercial work goes - these guys don't offer much more than the good ol' gaussian blur the skin and mask out the eyes technique.)

I got really fed up early on buying a large photoshop book and finding out that all of the techniques was stuff I already knew but presented in a much longer winded format.

Hands down, this site is the best resource I've been able to find on retouching so far. Lynda.com isn't so bad either.
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2009, 02:25 AM
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Doug Nelson Doug Nelson is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

I must admit I'd love to do a show about retouching "normal" people, such as in how99's everyday list. But I suspect getting a released image to work on would be a bear.

Don't derail this thread, but if you know of any working pros with that kind of portfolio, post the request over in the presenter request thread (and contact them yourself, of course. That's still the best way to convince someone to present here).
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:49 AM
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Cyberek Cyberek is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

As it is for me, it was great to see the show again...
I am not a professional, or even semi professional (I think about myself as learning amateur), everything was clear. All the techniques was mentioned on this forum before, and on many, many video tutorials here and there, just taken together to improve a photo.
So if webinar would go for more basics, I'm sure, that a lot of ppl would be disappointed. As Andrew sayed - its "Pro" not amateur.
For beginners - start with a good Photoshop Book, so You could know the tool, then learning how to use it will become much easier.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:38 AM
dianajenna dianajenna is offline
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Re: RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo

I so very much appreciated the opportunity to learn from Chris during this webinar. I can't wait for the next one. Thank you!
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