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-   -   RP LIVE "Jewelry Retouch" with Steve Koshlap (http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/retouchpro-live/28164-rp-live-jewelry-retouch-steve-koshlap.html)

cpanderson 11-14-2009 05:09 PM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Thanks so much Doug and Steve! This was my first RetouchPRO LIVE class and I can't wait until the next one! Beauty and Jewelry retouching two subjects that I am always interested in learning about further. I learned a lot, especially concerning shadows and paths usage.

P.S.: Even though most of the automotive shots are renders, maybe an automotive retouch show could be arranged in the future? ^_^.

Tareq 11-14-2009 05:29 PM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Thank you very much Doug and Steve, it was my first RetouchPRO Live show as well, and i enjoyed it a bit because i was sleepy [it is very late here now], and i hope i can watch another live class earlier than that.
Wish if i can get that class or show on DVD or recorded again somewhere as i didn't follow some of the show anyway, too weird if i pay for it but for some situations i couldn't get benefit of it to its maximum like the time of the show as i said.

Waiting for more live show!

Flashtones 11-14-2009 06:51 PM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Great show, guys, even if Doug does talk too much. :D

Plus, congratulations on a glitch-free broadcast - zero audio or visual problems!

Steve, I'm still confused on the CMYK vs RGB thing. My understanding is that you chose CMYK in this instance because you were retaining natural shadows, and by containing them solely on the K channel it would prevent color contamination on press. However, if you were creating the shadows from scratch you would have used RGB, only converting to CMKY toward the end.

Two questions:

1. Why is contamination less of a concern with fake shadows?

2. If a press can't be trusted to hold neutral in the shadows, why should it be trusted to hold neutral in the silver and diamonds? Why not isolate them to the K channel as well? Conversely, if a press can be trusted to hold neutral in the silver and diamonds, why can't it be trusted to hold neutral in a shadow?

Thank you!

chris_m_atl 11-15-2009 01:05 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Great broadcast, Steve and Doug. Also, I wanted to thank you for working in CMYK. It's the first screencast I've seen dedicated to the color space. Being a staccato Prepress Technician myself (graveyard shift), I did learn some valuable tricks with your video. :)

Flashtones, until Steve's return I'll attempt an answer. Although, he is far more experienced than myself.

If you are referring only to the shadows of the jewelry on the ground, I think Steve would have retained the original shadows if possible. However, the unique situation with the photograph at hand prevented that option - since he pulled a couple different pieces from different photographs. Instead, he chose to recreate the shadows from scratch as described in the video.

Had he been able to retain the original shadows, I think he would have still pulled back the CMY and ramped up K using a Channel Mixer adjustment layer. Since the shadows were converted from an RGB image, you don't want an unexpected color cast.

The importance of a good CMYK separation is to prevent several concerns as well as the colors "Mudding" on press. That is, all your colors have a nasty tint on the final printed piece or don't appear as clean and fresh as it really should. Color wash, flatness, offsetting, etc - can all become a problem with a simple RGB to CMYK conversion or bad separations on your submitted CMYK document. By properly separating the colors, you are reducing the probems mentioned as well eliminating the risk of supplying artwork with out-of-spec ink density - for most print conditions.

Simply converting a file from RGB to CMYK will still require additional refinements. Some of which can be achieved with Channel Mixer Adjustment layers by pulling the colors into their intended separation(s), C M Y or K as needed. By doing this extra work, you're reducing the risks of problems on press.

If you simply convert all the silver to K, you're result will appear a bit flat on the printed piece. A good, neutral CMY separation for the midtones and some shadows will result in a richer, more pleasing silver color. The tones of the silver will also look more realistic as opposed to grayscale silver with CMYK jewelry stones.

By merely submitting an RGB image to the client as a final working document, expect to see strong color shifts and unpleasant results on the final printed piece, hence the importance of providing a good CMYK separated image. The best solution is to consult with the commercial printer and find out the specific limitations of their presses, ask for their own ICC profiles, swatches and custom Photoshop & Distiller settings if possible.

I hope this doesn't cause additional confusion and helps answer your questions until Steve's return. :)

Cheers,
-Chris

dweekley 11-15-2009 03:02 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Great session. Steve was really organized in his thoughts and presentation. I don't even do jewlery retouching but still enjoyed this and the cmyk workspace discussions and tips. I really enjoyed learning about the black only shadow process and watching him demo various ways to approach the inside of that silver ring. Yea too for no audio/video issues!

markc78 11-15-2009 04:59 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Excellent , one of the best webinars to date & will be keen to see more from Steve especially in the line of a watch, automotive retouch etc, Thx guys

MrBlades 11-15-2009 05:48 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
I have been waiting for a Jewelry Retouching webcast, shame it wasn't really suited to my timezone, being in Australia. Is it likely that this will be rebroadcast? I'm sure other people have thought of this but why not set them up as pay per view streams once they have been recorded? the world is getting smaller and we really shoudn't let a silly little thing like timezone be a problem :) . Being a Jeweller and Photographer this topic is of great interest, so I can't wait to watch this episode of RetouchPRO Live. Thanks for your efforts.

twopoint0 11-15-2009 08:47 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Flashtones and Chris M-
Excellent questions and responses.
The problem of press movement and color contamination is exactly the same for natural and created shadows. I will work in RGB and convert to CMYK at the end only if I do a jewelry retouch of pieces shot within an environment. In that case, everything is four color-the shadows and whatever they fall on.
Shadows that vignette softly onto white can very easily appear to shift in color with only a small variation in the 4/C numbers. One errant shadow living on it's own may be acceptable, but imagine an entire catalog with small variations in shadow color! A heavy GCR will help, but black only will prevent that from happening.
A black only sep in silvers and diamonds, as Chris said, will look flat, weak and "warm". Those neutrals need a little cyan, at the least. Black on it's own doesn't have enough density on a coated sheet.

I really appreciate everyone attending the show, asking questions during it, and providing feedback here in the forum. It's satisfying to share my little knowledge with people who are interested in learning!

-Steve

Flashtones 11-15-2009 10:08 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by twopoint0 (Post 249490)
The problem of press movement and color contamination is exactly the same for natural and created shadows.

Ah, that was my point of confusion. The rest makes sense now.

Is there any advantage to a CMKY workflow with a late conversion to RGB if RGB is your eventual destination, like for web or lamda prints?

Thanks again for sharing the knowledge.

twopoint0 11-15-2009 10:24 AM

Re: RetouchPRO LIVE with Steve Koshlap
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashtones (Post 249491)
Ah, that was my point of confusion. The rest makes sense now.

Is there any advantage to a CMKY workflow with a late conversion to RGB if RGB is your eventual destination, like for web or lamda prints?

Thanks again for sharing the knowledge.

The only reason I can think of, would be the need to work the file in CMYK/Black only shadows, then re-purpose it for an RGB application. The CMYK color gamut is much smaller than most RGB spaces, which means you'll probably be giving up some nice saturated colors, but at least the printed piece and the lambda will look the same.


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