RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > RetouchPRO LIVE
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


RetouchPRO LIVE Discussion and announcements for RetouchPRO LIVE events

RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/09

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 12-03-2009, 06:30 AM
LindyM LindyM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

^ thats how you talk to people ?
the phone went off twice if I recall, very unprofessional.

And that was constructive criticism, but obviously you don't know how to take it.

I've seen better videos on youtube, for FREE.
Reply With Quote top
  #12  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:23 AM
cricket1961's Avatar
cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 488
Blog Entries: 38
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

Well then, it was just you.
Constructive criticism is actually giving alternatives to what was given.

You said "You may be great at retouching but horrible speaking and explaining what you are doing"
What was horrible about the speaking? - you gave no examples or ways to make it better.
what was wrong about explanations? - again, no examples or ways to make it better.

You said "a bit more prepared before doing so".
What was unprepared? again you give no examples or ways to make better.

I do recall my phone vibrating once on the table and that was it. Its never kept on a ringtone due to kids
sleeping at that point in time.

If you are saying that because of the cell phone that it was an unprepared presentation then
that is just an unrealistic comment. It happens to everyone eventually.

And as to your comment "^ thats how you talk to people ?"
I said nothing wrong. You had stated " This was my first and Last time I attend your webinar "
I just agreed with your comment.

No one is expecting you to return to something that was evidently lacking for you. I am also
assuming from your comments that you didn't learn anything in regards to Photoshop or retouching
either.

So.... again. If you have constructive criticism I'm willing to hear it.

Chris
Reply With Quote top
  #13  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:27 AM
cricket1961's Avatar
cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 488
Blog Entries: 38
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard6911 View Post
This was my second Chris session and I got so much out of it.
Chris made it clear that he never does skin smoothing for a beauty retouch. has he ever mentioned what he does do for skin smoothing on a glamour retouch?
I, for one, would really like to know his answer on that one.
do you know, Doug?
Richard I will try to touch base on this in a session. The few times that I do Glamour Retouching I rarely retain a psd file. But I am sure I can adapt a Beauty shot for this purpose.

Chris
Reply With Quote top
  #14  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:41 AM
shamrock2008's Avatar
shamrock2008 shamrock2008 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ireland
Posts: 106
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

@Lynda, I think you are over reacting, thats my honest opinion. These are live shows, full of information and with the ability of asking questions live, so the show is fluid.. you made your point, not sure why, but I am sure Chris will never forget where his phone is for further shows.. but who cares.. at least he didn't take the call and chat for an hour I like Chris and he has a great style of presentation. Everyone can be better, everyone can improve but you lack the ability to make a point without coming across in a "bad" way... As for Doug talking, I like it, without him the question system would simply not work and the show would be static.. I also find him entertaining(at times) and even informative..

@Chris, I wont ring you again

For the record, I don't know Chris or Doug from a hole in the wall...
I have watched a few shows since I joined and with every show I was left with something inspiring to use in My future work...
Reply With Quote top
  #15  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:28 PM
wcbert wcbert is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

@Lynda - Wow that is over board with your commentary of Chris Tarantino being unprofessional is cross the line for me! There giving criticism but calling someone unprofessional from one mistake, we all make mistakes.

I recommend these RetouchPro broadcasts to people like me, that are photographers that are not looking to be retouchers but looking to improve their Photoshop skills using "their" photographers.

Skilled retouchers like Chris Tarantino are exactly the type of people to learn from and hope the negative comment of "unprofessional" will not keep Chris Tarantino from doing future RetouchPRO LIVE broadcasts.

Bill
Reply With Quote top
  #16  
Old 12-03-2009, 03:52 PM
seattle-light's Avatar
seattle-light seattle-light is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC (formerly Seattle and New York)
Posts: 133
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

I am really quite impressed with Chris Tarantino's retouching work, but this little spat with LindyM seems completely unnecessary.

I think that it's really important for people to express their views (good, bad and indifferent). If LindyM found Chris's presentation style, his cell phone etiquette or Doug's running commentary annoying, that's important feedback (and it's better to encourage that kind of feedback than to get defensive or mean in response to it).

LindyM had already said what she thought and announced that she wasn't going to attend another webinar (which I think says she was more than a little disappointed in it). She paid for the show, and she has a right to complain.

She wasn't particularly harsh in her remarks (even said the Chris was a "great retoucher"). Perhaps she was having a bad day. Perhaps she travels in an incredibly polite circle where people don't use cell phones and are always eloquent. Who knows?

In any event, she was disappointed in the presentation on a number of levels. And that's a perfectly legitimate thing for her to express -- even if it's an unusual response.

Chris, it's a simple fact of life that not everyone is going to love you. If a hundred people watch a rebroadcast of your webinar and only one says they thought it sucked you should graciously thank that person for their feedback and say that you're sorry that they felt that way. And you should be thankful for the general interest in your work and for the fact that there's only one person complaining (aloud).

But to basically tell LindyM that it's her problem that she wasn't impressed, because everyone loves you and everyone keeps hiring you... Well that kind of response goes a long way toward reinforcing her perception that you lack manners/professionalism/whatever. At the very least, it says that you didn't really care about her experience.

The fact is that it doesn't matter if everyone else you've ever met thinks that you're amazing. She wasn't talking for everyone. She was only expressing her opinion of her experience of the presentation. I would think that her response is something of an anomaly (but that doesn't make it wrong), and she's probably not your target audience, but you don't need to try to make it her fault for not liking your presentation.

Sometimes it's just a chemistry thing. You might remind her of her brother or of her neighbor's dog. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Sometimes people just don't connect.

Look, I know you're a sensitive guy (and no one likes to be criticized), but you don't need to push back against every criticism. And doing so isn't going to win her over or help convince anyone of anything worthwhile.

You're popular enough to take an occasional hit, and I know that you're savvy enough to let things slide. Just scratching my head as to why you'd jump in the ring on this one and turn it into a street brawl.

Hope you are doing well Take care. Alan.
Reply With Quote top
  #17  
Old 12-03-2009, 04:47 PM
cricket1961's Avatar
cricket1961 cricket1961 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 488
Blog Entries: 38
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

Alan

Your words are well said.

All I wanted from Lindy were more specifics so that I can deal with the issue.
Aside from the cell phone issue. And while my first response might have been a bit direct
it was still a polite answer and I also asked her to be more specific.

My second reply was just a bit more specific in addressing what she had said. Thats all. And again asking for specifics. In order for me to get better at presenting I need to know what is not working or up to par. The same way I can't present new stuff for people to learn without them telling me specifically.

I have no problem with anyone disliking what I do. I have been around to long for that. But I do prefer more specific info to correct any issue, if there is one, than to just have an ambiguous statement made.

Did not try to turn this into a brawl and had not thought I had. It seems like the directness of Lindy and myself
came across as a lot of text does. The wrong way.

And I agree that Lindy can express herself. I have had my share of dissatisfied people over the years. Some have expressed themselves quite publicly, some have taken the time to email me their concerns privately
and also given concrete reasons for their issues with my work etc. I like that. It has made me a much better retoucher and presenter over time.

But you are also correct.This needs not be carried out longer than it has.

My apologies to you Lindy that what I wrote came across to you as a rude response. It was not my intention at all.

CHris
Reply With Quote top
  #18  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:37 PM
LindyM LindyM is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket1961 View Post
Well then, it was just you.
Constructive criticism is actually giving alternatives to what was given.

You said "You may be great at retouching but horrible speaking and explaining what you are doing"
What was horrible about the speaking? - you gave no examples or ways to make it better.
Your whole show sounded like it was on the fly. You should try writing a script to follow before a show. Everytime you were asked a question, you sounded caught off guard and stuttering.


You said "a bit more prepared before doing so".
What was unprepared? again you give no examples or ways to make better.
How about using your "regular" computer so you don't have to search for your Solarized Files. No better example of being unprepared than that one my friend

I do recall my phone vibrating once on the table and that was it. Its never kept on a ringtone due to kids
sleeping at that point in time.
I'm sure if I hosted a seminar that people paid for and my cell phone was vibrating on the podium it would not be accepted with praise. With so much technologies these days you would think turning the phone off and setting an "im hosting a webimar" voice-mail would do the trick.

If you are saying that because of the cell phone that it was an unprepared presentation then
that is just an unrealistic comment. It happens to everyone eventually.
Yes it may happen to everyone. You would think with ALL the experience you posted in your arrogant reply to my feelings that you would have all the small details down packed.

And as to your comment "^ thats how you talk to people ?"
I said nothing wrong. You had stated " This was my first and Last time I attend your webinar "
I just agreed with your comment.
You don't see anything wrong with "suit Yourself"
No one is expecting you to return to something that was evidently lacking for you. I am also
assuming from your comments that you didn't learn anything in regards to Photoshop or retouching
either.
Actually your webinar was nothing new to what others are teaching even on free sources such as youtube.

So.... again. If you have constructive criticism I'm willing to hear it.

Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamrock2008 View Post
@Lynda, I think you are over reacting, thats my honest opinion. These are live shows, full of information and with the ability of asking questions live, so the show is fluid.. you made your point, not sure why, but I am sure Chris will never forget where his phone is for further shows.. but who cares.. at least he didn't take the call and chat for an hour I like Chris and he has a great style of presentation. Everyone can be better, everyone can improve but you lack the ability to make a point without coming across in a "bad" way... As for Doug talking, I like it, without him the question system would simply not work and the show would be static.. I also find him entertaining(at times) and even informative..

Back in the day shows like "Happy days" were also LIVE, yet they rehearsed before taping the show in front of a live audience

Asking questions and interrupting are 2 very different things.

Look, I voiced my Opinions plain and simple and I didnt expect everyone to agree, especially those that know Him. Like me some of us expect more and this to me was not a great first impressions.
But hey, obviously he doesn't care


For the record, I don't know Chris or Doug from a hole in the wall...
I have watched a few shows since I joined and with every show I was left with something inspiring to use in My future work...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wcbert View Post
@Lynda - Wow that is over board with your commentary of Chris Tarantino being unprofessional is cross the line for me! There giving criticism but calling someone unprofessional from one mistake, we all make mistakes.
Before you join a debate you should make sure you have the names of those involved RIGHT. My Name is Lindy not Lynda.
Like I mentioned before, If I were hosting a Seminar that people paid to see and my cell phone started vibrating on the podium..Whats the word people would describe that moment ? Hmmm... Unprofessional



Skilled retouchers like Chris Tarantino are exactly the type of people to learn from and hope the negative comment of "unprofessional" will not keep Chris Tarantino from doing future RetouchPRO LIVE broadcasts.

OR Learn from them and make the next ones Better.


Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattle-light View Post
I am really quite impressed with Chris Tarantino's retouching work, but this little spat with LindyM seems completely unnecessary.

I think that it's really important for people to express their views (good, bad and indifferent). If LindyM found Chris's presentation style, his cell phone etiquette or Doug's running commentary annoying, that's important feedback (and it's better to encourage that kind of feedback than to get defensive or mean in response to it).
Amen

LindyM had already said what HE thought and announced that HE wasn't going to attend another webinar (which I think says she was more than a little disappointed in it). HE paid for the show, and she has a right to complain.
I'm actually a He.

She wasn't particularly harsh in her remarks (even said the Chris was a "great retoucher"). Perhaps she was having a bad day. Perhaps she travels in an incredibly polite circle where people don't use cell phones and are always eloquent. Who knows?
I live in a modern city where everyone has a cell phone, but just like the movie theater, there is a time and place to have it on or audible.

In any event, she was disappointed in the presentation on a number of levels. And that's a perfectly legitimate thing for her to express -- even if it's an unusual response.

Chris, it's a simple fact of life that not everyone is going to love you. If a hundred people watch a rebroadcast of your webinar and only one says they thought it sucked you should graciously thank that person for their feedback and say that you're sorry that they felt that way. And you should be thankful for the general interest in your work and for the fact that there's only one person complaining (aloud).

But to basically tell LindyM that it's her problem that she wasn't impressed, because everyone loves you and everyone keeps hiring you... Well that kind of response goes a long way toward reinforcing her perception that you lack manners/professionalism/whatever. At the very least, it says that you didn't really care about her experience.
I thought that it was a very arrogant reply.

The fact is that it doesn't matter if everyone else you've ever met thinks that you're amazing. She wasn't talking for everyone. She was only expressing her opinion of her experience of the presentation. I would think that her response is something of an anomaly (but that doesn't make it wrong), and she's probably not your target audience, but you don't need to try to make it her fault for not liking your presentation.

Sometimes it's just a chemistry thing. You might remind her of her brother or of her neighbor's dog. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Sometimes people just don't connect.

Look, I know you're a sensitive guy (and no one likes to be criticized), but you don't need to push back against every criticism. And doing so isn't going to win her over or help convince anyone of anything worthwhile.

You're popular enough to take an occasional hit, and I know that you're savvy enough to let things slide. Just scratching my head as to why you'd jump in the ring on this one and turn it into a street brawl.

Hope you are doing well Take care. Alan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricket1961 View Post
Alan

Your words are well said.

All I wanted from Lindy were more specifics so that I can deal with the issue.
Aside from the cell phone issue. And while my first response might have been a bit direct
it was still a polite answer and I also asked her to be more specific.

My second reply was just a bit more specific in addressing what she had said. Thats all. And again asking for specifics. In order for me to get better at presenting I need to know what is not working or up to par. The same way I can't present new stuff for people to learn without them telling me specifically.

I have no problem with anyone disliking what I do. I have been around to long for that. But I do prefer more specific info to correct any issue, if there is one, than to just have an ambiguous statement made.

Did not try to turn this into a brawl and had not thought I had. It seems like the directness of Lindy and myself
came across as a lot of text does. The wrong way.

And I agree that Lindy can express herself. I have had my share of dissatisfied people over the years. Some have expressed themselves quite publicly, some have taken the time to email me their concerns privately
and also given concrete reasons for their issues with my work etc. I like that. It has made me a much better retoucher and presenter over time.

But you are also correct.This needs not be carried out longer than it has.

My apologies to you Lindy that what I wrote came across to you as a rude response. It was not my intention at all.

CHris
Apology Accepted !

Last edited by LindyM; 12-03-2009 at 07:54 PM.
Reply With Quote top
  #19  
Old 12-04-2009, 12:56 PM
seattle-light's Avatar
seattle-light seattle-light is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver, BC (formerly Seattle and New York)
Posts: 133
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

Now I've got some egg on my face...

And hopefully I didn't stir up too much additional unnecessary conflict. That was not my intent. Rather I was hoping to see a riff being repaired.

LindyM -- I really appreciate your detailed feedback. Feedback (especially negative feedback) is always important. Hopefully it will be carefully reviewed and digested and perhaps there will be some lessons learned from it. You experience might not be typical, but for every person who complains there will usually be many others who simply walk away and never come back. Your feedback is a valuable contribution. Of course, I didn't mean to cast doubts on your manliness. I somehow assumed that because someone else referred to you as Lynda that you were a woman. My humble apologies. And I certainly wasn't assuming that you lived out in the boondocks or that you were out of touch with the modern world. I lived in New York City for more than a decade, and I met a number of highly sophisticated and ultra-polite people there. There's a level that I was thinking you were a probably a professional presenter. That partly explained your focus on presentation style and organization in my mind. I should probably ignore what's going on in my mind most of the time. But we all make assumptions all the time -- they help us get through the day -- and we are usually getting through with a bit of a chasm between our thoughts and reality.

Chris -- Sometimes things come off much more harshly in e-mail than in spoken conversation. It has a way of stripping away a person's character and the tone of voice that would help people to understand your meaning (seems that about 85% of a person's meaning in conversation is carried in the emotional tone and pace of delivery which provides context for the words to be understood -- which is part of the reason why written communication is so often misunderstood). I shouldn't have assumed that you were being a jerk from what you wrote. That's me reading an unnecessary level of tension and defensiveness into it. I shouldn't have assumed intention behind what I was reading. And one should probably never take words at face value in terms of a writer's intent. Words are incredibly imprecise and incredibly easy to misuse and/or misinterpret. But the voice in my head that seem to go along with what you had written probably gave it an unnecessarily harsh tone. My humble apologies for my assumptions about what you might have been thinking and feeling (maybe you can take some comfort in that at least I didn't think you were a woman, which is not to say that I would think anything less of you if you were a woman). I certainly know how a wry observation or sarcastic comment can be taken the wrong way. My quirky sense of humor is often lost on people in writing (even more so than when I'm talking). Gotten me into more trouble over the years than I could explain here.

Meanwhile, I should also say that I watched the original broadcast of the same Chris Tarantino webinar a while back. I was more impressed by the retouching than the presentation style or organization, but then I wasn't tuning in to see Chris Tarantino's skills as a presenter. I wasn't bothered by the cell phone vibrating or by it being unscripted as a presentation. But that's just me.

I know that Chris can be a smooth presenter (and in that department I think he was having an off day -- that's now been repeated probably several times in rebroadcasts), but for me the value was in seeing his approach to the work. I was surprised by a number of things he did.

LindyM commented that a lot of what was covered was nothing new or could be seen for free in other places on the internet. I guess that's true at some level. There are lots of people using the same techniques that Chris was using on that example (which I didn't think was a particularly great example of Chris's work). But few of them are using those techniques and achieving the kinds of results that Chris is so well known for.

I think it's great to see that one doesn't need to use a whole lot of complex processing to do great work. This was a good example of the importance of getting the basic stuff right.

I was pleasantly surprised by the simplicity and directness of much of Chris's working method. I found his take on dodging and burning (and especially on color selection for it) to be both clear and insightful. And I was fine with the less formal approach.

For me, the best learning takes place when I'm just watching while someone works. And I think that a more organized presentation would have missed the very things that I found most interesting. For me, seeing Chris's way of using a series of solarizing curves as diagnostic tools to help make problem areas more evident was the highlight of the webinar. That got me thinking in a number of new directions, and it's not something he really even talked about. It's just something he did quickly in passing -- but that alone was well worth the $10 and two hours for me. In a more efficiently organized and carefully scripted presentation, I don't think that would have come up. But again, that's just me. And I know that each person will have a different experience.

We are all blind people standing beside the elephant.

Hopefully we can all work together to figure out what's in front of us.

Sorry to go on at length here.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
Reply With Quote top
  #20  
Old 12-06-2009, 02:13 AM
Cornellison's Avatar
Cornellison Cornellison is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 10
Re: RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino (rebroadcast) 12/2/0

I think Doug's avatar explains this thread really well.

I vote for a redo or at least a rebroadcast.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > RetouchPRO LIVE


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RetouchPRO LIVE - Chris Tarantino Live Redo Doug Nelson RetouchPRO LIVE 45 08-11-2010 02:48 PM
Another rebroadcast of already rebroadcast? ShogunSho RetouchPRO LIVE 1 11-11-2009 09:53 PM
RP LIVE - Gry Garness (rebroadcast) 10/17/09 Doug Nelson RetouchPRO LIVE 16 10-18-2009 04:39 AM
RP LIVE - Chris Tarantino 08/01/09 Feedback Doug Nelson RetouchPRO LIVE 29 08-29-2009 04:41 AM
RP LIVE - Gry Garness (rebroadcast) 08/22/09 Doug Nelson RetouchPRO LIVE 3 08-22-2009 04:02 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved