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Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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  #81  
Old 05-26-2011, 11:54 AM
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by RobertAsh View Post
ACR and Lightroom aren't always there to the degree Photoshop is, but they do a good job most of the time and the great thing about them is you don't have to think about color spaces at all, just move one of those 10 sliders
I was thinking in terms of creating the various channels to blend in Photoshop.

In the current explained workflow, one takes an image that needs serious work. Forget the points that much of that work could be done when rendering from raw for the moment. You have initially three RGB channels, to “fix” the issues, you’ll take from one or more from those three channels, or you’ll convert a copy to Lab or CMYK to produce essentially a grayscale ‘mask’ for blending. But the image itself is lacking. I’m suggesting one build these channels, either full color or more likely grayscale, from the image in the raw processor. If you have to take an existing R, G, B channel from what you are presented, you’re kind of stuck with what you have.

In LR or ACR, you can move all the saturation sliders to zero, then alter HSL controls and/or the Calibrate sliders and have a heck of a lot of control in building the contrast for a channel you’ll later blend in Photoshop. I tried this for the desaturate shadows trick instead of taking the existing RGB doc, converting a copy to CMYK and using the black channel. Why? Because that black channel is what it is based on a conversion from RGB. In LR, I could target just the blacks and very dark grays I wanted (after “converting“ to B&W). I can even set and save an inverse curve, giving the equivalent of command I in Photoshop. I did this on a virtual copy. Opened in Photoshop (in high bit) and just loaded that as the channel for affecting black saturation. Unlike the CMYK use the K channel concept, I can go back to the VC and tweak it if so desired. Or make a VC of a VC. No storage demands.

So what I’m testing and maybe proposing is why be limited to 10 channels and channels from an initial document that’s anemic to start with? Create the contrast and content you want from the initial raw data. This isn’t to say every trick in the 10 channel book can be replicated in the raw processor for use later in Photoshop. But suppose you do need a Lab iteration for blending. Is it possible by rendering this specifically for the need in the converter, then taking the resulting RGB data into Lab, you might have a better starting point?
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  #82  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:00 PM
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by creativeretouch View Post
Even at this resolution you should be able to see difference.
Oh I see differences but I think they are subjective. The best rendering is the one you prefer.

I can’t comment on detail due to the small size.
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  #83  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:02 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Oh I see differences but I think they are subjective. The best rendering is the one you prefer.

I can’t comment on detail due to the small size.
OK. No problem.
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  #84  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:13 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
In LR or ACR, you can move all the saturation sliders to zero, then alter HSL controls and/or the Calibrate sliders and have a heck of a lot of control in building the contrast for a channel you’ll later blend in Photoshop. I tried this for the desaturate shadows trick instead of taking the existing RGB doc, converting a copy to CMYK and using the black channel. Why? Because that black channel is what it is based on a conversion from RGB. In LR, I could target just the blacks and very dark grays I wanted (after “converting“ to B&W). I can even set and save an inverse curve, giving the equivalent of command I in Photoshop. I did this on a virtual copy. Opened in Photoshop (in high bit) and just loaded that as the channel for affecting black saturation. Unlike the CMYK use the K channel concept, I can go back to the VC and tweak it if so desired. Or make a VC of a VC. No storage demands.
Interesting approach. As you can see you have various ways how to get what you need. Chris Tarantino created a nice action which you can download from his blog (thank you Chris for sharing it). Just few clicks and you have all channels you need. In few seconds. You should create second action which will delete all these channels otherwise your file will get bigger.

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
So what I’m testing and maybe proposing is why be limited to 10 channels and channels from an initial document that’s anemic to start with?
As you work on the image your channels are changing as well. It means you need to work with the most current channel.

Last edited by creativeretouch; 05-26-2011 at 12:21 PM.
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  #85  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:19 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
you might have a better starting point?
I was thinking about it. As I can see from the image above, I am loosing informations from highlights & shadows. This is the reason why I prefer low contrast (really ugly, I do agree) export from RAW converter. As long as you have enough informations you are able to work with them.
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  #86  
Old 05-26-2011, 12:56 PM
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by creativeretouch View Post
As I can see from the image above, I am loosing informations from highlights & shadows. This is the reason why I prefer low contrast (really ugly, I do agree) export from RAW converter.
Where would I be seeing this?

With the current raw settings you are ‘losing’ shadows and highlights? If this is from a true raw, keep in mind the Exposure slider (with alt/option to see clipping) is a powerful way to ensure you are not blowing out highlights. Often an image that is a good 1-1.5 stops OVER what the meter (or the JPEG you see on the LCD) can be fully recovered because half of all the data in a raw is in that first stop. see: http://digitaldog.net/files/ETTR_Histograms.pdf

Recovery can help a bit but I never use it more than half way because of what the current algorithm does in terms of color shifting (something Adobe is aware of and I hope they fix soon. In Raw Developer, no such issue so clearly this is doable). Then up the Fill a bit, maybe tweak the Black (or better IMHO, in Curves, Shadows) slider.

There’s a ton of data in the raw you have to massage out by using the Basic sliders and do so from their default (let alone flat) settings.
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  #87  
Old 05-26-2011, 01:00 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
Where would I be seeing this?

With the current raw settings you are ‘losing’ shadows and highlights? If this is from a true raw, keep in mind the Exposure slider (with alt/option to see clipping) is a powerful way to ensure you are not blowing out highlights. Often an image that is a good 1-1.5 stops OVER what the meter (or the JPEG you see on the LCD) can be fully recovered because half of all the data in a raw is in that first stop. see: http://digitaldog.net/files/ETTR_Histograms.pdf

Recovery can help a bit but I never use it more than half way because of what the current algorithm does in terms of color shifting (something Adobe is aware of and I hope they fix soon. In Raw Developer, no such issue so clearly this is doable). Then up the Fill a bit, maybe tweak the Black (or better IMHO, in Curves, Shadows) slider.

There’s a ton of data in the raw you have to massage out by using the Basic sliders and do so from their default (let alone flat) settings.
I adjusted all sliders you mentioned. Perhaps you would do it better. But I could not get this kind of "soft look" from any RAW converter.
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  #88  
Old 05-26-2011, 01:10 PM
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

I’d be happy to take a crack. But I don’t understand what you mean by “soft look”. One issue is retaining highlight and shadow detail you wish. When you say soft look, you mean Midtone contrast (that’s where clarity comes into play).
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  #89  
Old 05-26-2011, 02:27 PM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
...Recovery can help a bit but I never use it more than half way because of what the current algorithm does in terms of color shifting (something Adobe is aware of and I hope they fix soon. In Raw Developer, no such issue so clearly this is doable). Then up the Fill a bit, maybe tweak the Black (or better IMHO, in Curves, Shadows) slider.

There’s a ton of data in the raw you have to massage out by using the Basic sliders and do so from their default (let alone flat) settings.
What do you mean by Raw Developer here?
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  #90  
Old 05-26-2011, 02:29 PM
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Re: Photoshop Channel concepts: The Power of Ten

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What do you mean by Raw Developer here?

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200607_rodneycm.pdf
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