Salon - - Camp vs. Wit/Kitsch vs. Charm

Doug Nelson · #1 06-12-2007, 07:43 PM

I like a show called America's Got Talent. I hate the format and the hosts, but I love the talent. Today I got my first chance to see Britain's Got Talent via youtube. It was fascinating to compare, as both share the same format, same producers, and even one of the same hosts. But the Brit version is so much better!

This got me thinking about what America values as entertainment compared to what the Brits value. We seem to revel in camp and kitsch, while they celebrate wit and charm.

Am I alone in this analysis? I'd especially like to hear from our UK contingent on this.

Gary Richardson · #2 06-13-2007, 03:19 AM

Can't speak for other Brits. Going by the current trend of "reality" shows on TV, that appears to be what we want to watch (personally I hate them with a vengeance and would happily kick in the screen were one ever to appear on it), or at least it's what the TV companies are increasingly inflicting on us these days.

For me I like mysteries, thrillers and good sci-fi. All need to have well written storylines (increasingly hard to find these days) and to treat their audience as if they have an IQ greater than that of a 10 year old (also increasingly hard to find) and preferably to assume we've got an attention span of over 10 minutes.

I enjoy good comedy shows (Red Dwarf, Black Adder, etc), but over the last few years there's been very little of that on the box.

I'm currently enjoying Heroes.

Talent shows of any kind give me a pain, as most of the contestants inevitably have neither talent, imagination, or ability, and people are only watching for the cutting comments from the self satisfied smart arses that form the panel of judges. The rest is just a well drilled routine to get idiots to phone in and pay for the programme.

I've seen a few American versions of these shows, and were they to show regularly over here I'm afraid I would have to take an axe to my TV set.

chris h · #3 06-13-2007, 04:13 AM

Agreed on most of the above Gary. Funny it was assumed quality TV over here was always on ITV and BBC but nowadays I look at Channel 4 and 5 before anything else. A sign of oncoming codgerdom is the DVD's I buy of old seies such as Blackadder etc.
One bit of good news is that the second series of 'Rome' is due.

Doug Nelson · #4 06-13-2007, 04:31 AM

If I was to put it in words, the British version seems nicer and more heartwarming than the US version. They both have "talent" acts that make you want to groan, but the British version montages over those to focus on the good acts. The US version focuses on the groaner acts and montages the good acts.

Another significant difference is that the US version has one million dollars as a prize, whereas the British winner gets to perform for the queen. So we get a bunch of greedy oddballs, while the Brits get to see people that cry when they learn they might get to entertain HRH.

I'm not claiming these shows have any significance on their own, but I find the differences fascinating.

One of my current favorite shows is Canadian. It's called ReGenesis. A bit sci-fi, but doesn't take place in the future. All about genetic catastrophes and an fictional team of scientists that fight them. The hook is that it's very grounded in real science. A Canadian genetics lab has even added a section to it's website to analyse each episode for what is and what isn't possible (more than you'd expect gets branded "possible, but not likely" or "maybe in 10 years", very little is "no way, ever", and more than I expected is labeled "already exists/has happened"). As with most series it's getting a bit soapy in its 3rd season, the first two seasons are the best (so far).

Gary Richardson · #5 06-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Sounds like one to look out for, I don't think we've got it over here yet.

Trouble with a lot of good US series, is that they try to spin them out too long and loose the "edge" that made you want to watch them in the first place.

Another criticism of US programming (and UK TV is becoming more and more like it), is that they have a habit of force feeding you with something once they find it works, so you get a whole lot of spin off series. eg CSI, CSI Miami, CSI NY. One would be enough, 3 is just kicking the arse out of it.

One of the reasons I'm enjoying Heroes is that it has a "connected up" storyline that assumes you can remember a plot from one week to the next. It's ongoing, and seems to have a beginning, a middle, and hopefully an end that doesn't leave an opening for another series.

Kraellin · #6 06-13-2007, 11:47 PM

ah, i knew you had good taste, gary. i have most of 'Red Dwarf' on tape

'cat' just kills me! 'fish!'

Gary Richardson · #7 06-14-2007, 02:49 AM

Quote:

I'm gonna get you little fishy

Yup, like Cat as well, but Kryten is my favourite, especially when Rimmer quotes space corps directives and Kryten corrects him and says what they really are.

Luckily we still get regular repeats of just about all the RD serieses (if that's a word) on Satellite, so I can get my fix.

Kraellin · #8 06-14-2007, 10:27 PM

yeah, kryten is cool. lol. i liked holly too, the computer with an iq of, what was it, 3000?

Doug Nelson · #9 06-15-2007, 01:55 AM

A good example for my point. Compare the Red Dwarf you love with this.

Gary Richardson · #10 06-15-2007, 03:25 AM

Hard to tell whether this is a Rob Grant & Doug Naylor piss take (as it fits nicely with their sense of humour), or a serious offering for the US market.

We have a habit of modifying successful British programmes for US TV (no doubt on the advice of US consultants) which bomb totally.

Seems they or the consultants (whichever) underestimate the capacity of a US audience to appreciate British humour. Truth being (in my experience), that the shows that most Americans I've talked to like, are the quintessentially British ones, and not the "Modified for the US" versions.

If this is a serious US Pilot, it looks like all other US adaptations, a flop. The only character that worked was Kryten (suprise, suprise it's Robert Llewellyn from the original) the others just didn't suit the dialogue, which just doesn't compare with the real thing.

Racc Iria · #11 06-15-2007, 09:24 AM

I love Red Dwarf. It was a great show. One of my favorites. But, it would never have worked if it were remade for the U.S. market. It would get so watered down into stupid camp that its cleverness and appeal would be lost.

However, another show that's been an absolute success in the conversion to the U.S. market is "The Office." I used to watch the original British show on BBC America. It was fantastic!

I also love the American version. I wasn't sure I would, at first. In the beginning some of the plot lines were the same, but the humor was different. But, the show grew on me and I like it just as much as the British show, but in different ways. The British "Office" humor was much more dry, cerebral, and gradually paced, while the American version's humor is a bit more "uncontrolled," fast paced, and a bit more "physical" or "active" somehow (but not slapstick). But at the same time, still manages to keep a lot of the dry humor.

Swampy · #12 06-15-2007, 09:32 AM

I spotted this contestant on a Britain's Got Talent clip on YouTube, and was blown away! (As were the judges). Take a minute and watch this "lump of coal turn into a diamond".

Paul Potts Sings Nessun Dorma

lurch · #13 06-15-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampy

. . . Take a minute and watch this "lump of coal turn into a diamond". . . .[/url]

Thanks for the link, Swampy. Blew me away too, and brought tears to my eyes.

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Doug Nelson · #14 06-15-2007, 04:07 PM

Paul impressed me, but I found out he's no "lump of coal", he's a working opera pro with his own wikipedia entry.

But THIS one brought a tear to my jaded eye:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBj1R5FlaI

Swampy · #15 06-15-2007, 05:37 PM

I read his Wicki entry...

>>Paul has appeared on national and local television and radio. His claim to fame is his 1999 appearance on Michael Barrymore's My Kind of Music. He has spent two summers touring Northern Italy training with one of the major opera schools, training under top teachers Mario Melani and Svetlana Sidrova, and has taken part in master classes with Vilma Vernocchi, Katia Ricciarelli and Luciano Pavarotti.

>>For the Bath UK based amateur company Bath Opera, he has performed the roles of Don Basilio (Marriage of Figaro), Don Ottavio (Don Giovanni) and the title role in Verdi's Don Carlos, and Turandot as Prince of Persia and Herald.

But I don't see anything "professional" in his resume. Michael Barrymore's "My Kind of Music" is a game show, nothing wrong with training with the likes of Pavarotti, and his appearances in the named opera were with an "amateur company". Don't know how you get "pro" out of that.

Regardless, he has made it to the finals (Sunday night) and will sing before Queen Elizabeth. Well deserved I think.