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I can't take any more of XP!!

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  #21  
Old 03-28-2002, 09:40 AM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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Mac prices

I don't think the old agrument about Mac hardware and software being so much more expensive was ever true and is even less true today. I can buy the same printer as my PC friends for the same price, PhotoShop is the same price, OS 10.1 (the newest operating system) is less than you paid for XP and it's very stable.

Add to that the fact that when you buy a new Mac, you don't have to go back to the store for cables and such (they come right in the box), also every Mac has a built in Ethernet card (so when you want to get a DSL connection you don't have to shell out $$ for a card). Every Mac comes with a good sound card etc.

For $1,900 CDN ($1,500 US), I put a new iMac on my desk and within 15 minutes I had transferred all my stuff from the old one to the new one, 5 minutes after that, I was all hooked up to the Internet.

When you consider the millions of lines of code that go into any operating system, it's a wonder they work as well as they do, but I'll wager that my Mac doesn't crash as often or as destructively as any Windows machine which translates into more productive hours over the life of the machine.

And BTW, the productive life of a Mac has proven to be much longer than any PC I've ever seen. I had both a Mac and a PC at work - they had to upgrade the PC 3 times before they had to upgrade the Mac.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Margaret
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2002, 02:16 PM
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d_kendal d_kendal is offline
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Thanks for all the helpfull replies!

Greg - I'll have to look into the BIOS I haven't really checked that out. I haven't overclocked anything (my video card is a Nvidia TNT2 32MB AGP) partly because the performance is fine from everything and I want my hardware to last as long as possible.

Vikki - thanks for the tips. I checked everything out for DriectX and it's all fine. there wasn't any options to lower the hardware acceleration, you could only disable it, so i just left it the way it was. My fan is working great and my machine is fairly cool, so I don't think it's a problem with overheating.

Ed - I've been really surprised how many people aren't having problems with XP and actually like it. personally I hate it and can't get away from it fast enough. even if I do get all my problems with it figured out (unless some of them are in the 65,000 bugs in Windows on last count) I still really don't like Windows. I keep learning about how KDE/Linux works and I think it's much more my style.

Doug - heheh I'll have to remeber to get a white car when I start looking.

CJ - I've got 256MB Ram, and for virtual memory I put it to 512MB (twice my RAM which is recommended) and set that for minimum and max. (I've heard that you can have problems if you don't set them to the same number)

Margaret -Thanks, thats interesting. I get all my PC hardware OEM so it's quite inexpensive. my other complaints about Macs are: (correct me if I'm wrong), most of the Mac hardware seems to be quite small which doesn't really leave much room for upgrades. I like to have a big PC box so I can have multiple hard drives, CD-RW, Dvd rom, floppy drive, zip drive etc. etc. and I've noticed that all the Mac processors seem to be way behind in speed ( the fastest Ive seen is maybe 800Mhz compared to 2 Ghz for PCs). and it may not be like this in other places but here in Edmonton, whenever I see mac stuff advertised, it costs more then PC stuff.

- David
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2002, 02:59 PM
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G. Couch G. Couch is offline
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David - The whole mhz. thing is a bit misleading. It's more of an Intel marketing gimmick than anything. I have had a Mac and used them at work and an 800mhz G4 can keep up with much faster Pentiums, especially in applications like Photoshop. Remember that Apple is able to design their OS around very specific hardware since they do not allow "clones" to be made. This helps to make Macs very stable and very fast machines. Windows, on the other hand, has to be designed to run on a huge variety of hardware configurations.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2002, 04:05 PM
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d_kendal d_kendal is offline
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I was starting to suspect there was something like that going on for processors. PC processor names can be misleading too - for example AMD Athlon XP 1800 processers aren't 1.8 Ghz, they're 1.6 or 7 I think.

- David
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2002, 04:38 PM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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The way the MHZ thing was explained to me was that the PC folks made a longer pipe, Mac made a fatter one; therefore more data can pass through the pipe at one time on a Mac.

I suppose you're right about the ability to expand a Mac, but most of us don't ever open the box to add more stuff (nor do we need to); on the other hand, I know some folks who open the box and throw the cover away so it doesn't matter how big it was.

You're absolutely right. If your aim is to play around with components buy a PC. If you want to get work done and never intend to open the box, buy a Mac.

I just priced an iBook with 256 MB of RAM, CD-RW, DVD ROM and 20 GB hard drive $2,500 CDN; Future Shop has an HP laptop with similar equipment for almost the same price. HP products are notorious for failing in the most destructive ways and it comes pre-loaded with Windows XP so based on what I'm hearing, I would have to buy a new operating system right away.

When I go to buy a laptop, I don't care what platform it is - I'll be using it as a word processor - but I'll likely go with the iBook because I know what I'm getting.

The other argument against Macs that I frequently hear is that there isn't as much software for Macs. My question always is, "how much software do you need?" I've owned Macs exclusively and never felt deprived of any software. I earned my living on a Mac for most of my IT career, and was able to get the job done to my employer's satisfaction.

I'm not bashing PC's but it irks me that most of the arguments against Macs are not well founded. I've even heard them described as "harder to use" - who do they think invented the GUI interface LOL

Margaret
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2002, 04:43 PM
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ItzRandy ItzRandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by d_kendal
Hi Greg,

I've been wondering if it's a hardware thing too. I have a Celeron 950 Mhz processor and an AOpen AX34 II Motherboard and the fan is working just fine.
I've checked through everything in the device manager and there's no problems there. the wierd part of all this is it crashes most frequently on the net (and its not because of viruses or bad programs - I'm careful and check thngs out all the time) but it hasn't been as bad as usual lately since I've reloaded, its mostly been other strange problems.

- David
I had similar crashing problems using XP Pro so I did a clean install and loaded one program at a time and ran it until I developed the problem again. Turned out that the problem was caused by my firewall (BlackIce). Blackice developed a patch and I have never had a problem since. I have read that people have had similar problems using Zone Alarm. Just a thought but try loading the system without Zone Alarm and see if you are stable for a period of time. I personally have not rebooted for about 3 weeks and that was only because I loaded a new Graphire 2 tablet to my list of toys. I'm running an overclocked P3 700 running perfectly stable at 933 Mhz on an ASUS motherboard!

Hope you figure it out!

Randy
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2002, 06:00 PM
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d_kendal d_kendal is offline
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Margaret - you're right, Apple invented the GUI then Microsoft ripped it off and invented Windows. thats one of the (many) reasons I don't like Microsoft - practically nothing they've made is original.

Randy - I downloaded the latest version of ZoneAlarm when I reinstalled windows and it seems to be a lot more stable now, except that I'm having new problems like when i lose my internet connection and reconnect, quite often I can connect but nothing can actually get through until after I've rebooted and connected again.
thanks,

- David
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  #28  
Old 03-28-2002, 06:15 PM
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ItzRandy ItzRandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by d_kendal

Randy - I downloaded the latest version of ZoneAlarm when I reinstalled windows and it seems to be a lot more stable now, except that I'm having new problems like when i lose my internet connection and reconnect, quite often I can connect but nothing can actually get through until after I've rebooted and connected again.
thanks,

- David
David,

This is still sounding an awful lot like a firewall issue. On the disconnect Zone Alarm is still functioning and then when you reconnect I having a feeling that the process is being blocked. I would seriously consider completely removing Zone Alarm from the system and seeing what happens from there. Unfortunatley, the only way to get it completely out of your system is by doing a clean install of XP. Zone Alarm really works its way into the registry and finding all the keys is almost impossible. I can sense the disdain for microsoft in your posts but I must tell you (and maybe I'm one of the lucky ones) XP has been by far the most stable OS I have used to date. Win 2000 Pro was a close second but wasn't quite as stable as this has been. I think the reason behind this is that when a program crashed in 2000 the whole operating system needed a reboot, not so in XP. Also, disable the internal firewall if you happen to have that running. If none of this works, I find that a well placed bullet near the processor ends all worries about the system ever being able to crash again!

Randy
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  #29  
Old 03-28-2002, 06:44 PM
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d_kendal d_kendal is offline
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Hi Randy,
I'd already disabled the internal firewall so I tried just uninstalling ZoneAlarm, and so far anyway it seem to be working. Windows XP is reasonably stable, but its still no comparison to Linux/UNIX. I once read that a UNIX box ran for 11 years only being rebooted once to install new hardware!! lol instead of shooting my computer, I'd rather just burn my copy of Windows and intall Linux.

- David
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  #30  
Old 03-28-2002, 06:46 PM
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G. Couch G. Couch is offline
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Actually, the modern day GUI was an invention of Xerox PARC. Apple essentially bought it (some say stole it) from them and applied the technology to the LISA and then later to the first Macintosh. (Plus, they hired a bunch of Xerox engineers!)

Microsoft came along with Windows, but I would not say they "stole" the idea. In fact, at the time, there were several GUIs in existence (GEM, GEOS, etc...) and they were all competing for market share. The common ancestory of ALL was Xerox.
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