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| Salon Just hanging around... (Social area, where non-retouching talk is encouraged) |
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#1
03-27-2002, 02:13 PM
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 I can't take any more of XP!! I've really had it with windows (and it's not because I'm inexperienced - I've used 3.1, 95, 98, and XP) I've had sooo many problems and it hasn't really helped deleting everything and reloading Windows, so I give up. I'm very soon switching to Linux (Mandrake 8.2). When I first bought XP in december I actually liked it, and it was quite stable. but after I started installing programs it quickly got worse and worse. here's a list of reasons I'm ditching Windows XP:[list=1][*]Instability the more programs I installed, the less stable it got, especially on the net. at times it'd crash every 5-10 minutes while I was surfing. I also get all kinds of problems with programs locking up and not responding, or strange things like when I double click on a program it won't start no matter what I do, so I have to reboot.[*]Speed visual effects look nice but they sure slow thngs down. I've gone through all the settings in control panel to see what I can disable but when I did disable them I ran into various problems (for example when I disabled all the performance consuming effects it messed up my control panel which I tried every thing I could think of to fix but ended up having to reloading windows)[*]Security/Privacy I was not impressed having to download patches for the major security holes. Windows does include some kind of "firewall" or something but it's not very effective and you don't have control over anything. You don't really get much privacy in Windows - it automatically installs the Comet cursor (sends information to microsoft) and Alexa (tracks all your surfing habits in Internet Explorer). My firewall (ZoneAlarm) has cathes windows trying to access the internet many times a day (so i'm pretty sure it's not just checking for updates)[*]Incompatibility With every release, Microsoft makes lots of your hardware/ Software incompatible, forcing you to upgrade and costing you quite a bit of money.[*]Cost at approx. $200US for the full version it's quite expensive(especially when compared to Linux) so if you keep buying new versions to keep current, it can really add up.[*]Spacea Windows installation takes up quite a bit of space, and as you install and uninstall programs, a lot of junk builds up (including full programs sometimes - windows won't let me uninstall or delete them) which can only be getten rid of by reformatting and reloading windows.[*]Various other strange things for example, I'll be using a program and then suddenly, *poof* i'ts gone and then it reloads my desktop and I can't open the program again until I restart Windows.[/list=1] I could go on for a loooong time about the rest of the problems there are with Windows, but you're probably getting the picture by now. and on top of that, I really hate Microsoft and try to avoid buying their products. (here's a good page about Microsoft: http://www.geocities.com/netmaniac00/hatems.html) Now, here's the reasons why I'm going over to Linux: [list=1][*]Stability Linux can easily run for months or years without crashing, and even if a program locks up or crashes you can still get out of it and it won't crash the operating system. also Linux is very efficient with memory, which causes better stability.[*]Speed even Microsoft realizes that Linux is faster than Windows - from a MS memo: "Linux/Netscape ran 30-40% faster than NT/IE".[*]Security Linux was intended for the internet, so it is very secure. also, with it's file permission system, if you do get a virus, it can do a lot less damage than it could on a Windows system.[*]Low costLinux is under the GNU Public License (GPL), so distributions (like Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE etc.) can be downloaded for free, or bought on CD for very low price. also each distribution normally comes with at least 1 or 2 CDs worth of programs (hundreds of programs).[*]Graphical interfaces an average distrobution will have around 4, including KDE and Gnome (the most popular ones) which make Linux much easier to use.(if you're wondering what it looks like go here: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/fscreenshots.php3 ) also, some distributions like Mandrake and SuSE have done nice graphical installations, which make it a lot easier for Linux newbies to install it. There's an add on called WINE which lets you run Windows applications under Linux (I've seen screenshots of WINE running Internet Explorer and MS Word!)[*]Space Linux can install on a 486 with about 16 MB RAM. a minimal install can be around 50-100 Megabites. on a new system it will take up much less hard drive space and be faster than Windows.[/list=1] However there ARE some downsides to Linux:[list=1][*]Incompatibility There's still various hardware that won't work in Linux, but there's lots that is compatible too( for a list see here: http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/hardware.php3 ) and there's still software that won't run under WINE (no Photoshop, various 3D games etc.)[*]Hard to learn Linux can be tough to get started with and run, but the graphical installations and window systems make it much easier to install/learn, and there is starting to be some very good help websites out there (like http://www.linuxnewbie.org)[/list=1] I'm not gonna delete Windows yet, because I'm going to have to dual boot so that I can still use my printer/scanner/copier which doesn't have a Linux driver yet. but besides that I'm not going to be using Windows any more, I've really taken enough of it already. Sorry about this long rant, but I thought at least some of you might find it interesting if you don't get bored to death halfway through. anyway I need to stop typing now, it's too long already and my fingers are getting tired  - David Last edited by d_kendal; 03-27-2002 at 05:24 PM.  |
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#3
03-27-2002, 03:38 PM
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| When XP first came out there was lots of good reviews and I've heard from other people that they really like it, so I've been quite surprised a how many problems I've had with it. the latest thing I have been having today, is when I boot up, it takes about 5-10 minutes before I can open anything. and this is just after a clean install. Im sooo frustrated with it. I'd consider using a mac, except all the hardware/ software is sooo expensive, so for now I'll keep with the free stuff (Linux) that can run on my current machine. - David  Last edited by d_kendal; 03-27-2002 at 03:45 PM. |
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#4
03-27-2002, 04:45 PM
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| Add this to your Linux downside: No Photoshop |
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#5
03-27-2002, 04:51 PM
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| Wow, it really sounds like you have an over abundance of problems! I can't say that I'm crazy about Microsoft either. I can actually remember my first computer had Geoworks instead of Windows, and I hated the fact that I had to switch to Windows in order to get the software I wanted (Photoshop, for one). I'm curious about what your firewall has reported about the Microsoft accesses to your system. Sounds incredible! Do you have any more details about that? Regarding XP, I have to say, I haven't experienced anything near the problems you're encountering. I've been running XP since November, with pretty good results (knock on wood). I'm wondering if you made an upgrade, or did it come pre-installed? Mine was pre-installed, so I was lucky enough not to have that hassle. One of the first things I did, was download all the XP drivers for my current hardware, and all the software upgrades for my programs. So far, so good. I can't image why you are unable to customize the firewall settings, as well as other settings, as I didn't have any problems on that part either. I didn't care for the new "look" so I chose the option of using the "traditional" theme/style. Thanks to that option, I've hardly noticed the differences from Win98. All in all, it has a few nice features, and works ok, but I wouldn't recommend it as a "must have" (remember, I'm still using version 4 of Photoshop, although I am making the upgrade to 7). I wish you success, and peace of mind with Linux. Keep us posted. |
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#6
03-27-2002, 05:30 PM
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| I can't say that I'm a fan of Microsoft either, but I won't give up Photoshop. I've stuck with Windows 98SE on purpose, and have fewer problems with it than I did with Windows 3.1 or 95. I started with an Apple 2e many years ago and did get an IMac but had more problems with its OS than with Windows (I'm sure that part of it was my lack of experience with the newer OS, but it still locked up on me just like Windows). I'll root for Linux or whoever else can break the Microsoft lock on compatibility with hardware/software, but in the meanwhile I'll keep chugging along with my lil' ol' Win98. Geez, some days I don't even have to re-boot at all  |
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#7
03-27-2002, 05:51 PM
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| Doug - it was in there but I went back and highlighted it because I think thats a major one thats holding people back from switching to Linux. There is The GIMP (Photshop knockoff http://www.gimp.org ) for linux and the newest version (1.2.3 and there's also the Windows version) apparently has a plug in to accept photoshop filters so thats quite interesting, however its still not equal to photoshop. Vikki - I'm using ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonelabs.com) and it catches Windows trying to access the internet quite often. even if I could configure the firewall I wouldn;t trust it, because it's from MS. XP came preinstalled when I bought my custom computer back in december and just in the past couple days I partitioned my hard drive, reformatted, deleted, the windows partition (i backed up my hard drive first of course) and reinstalled Windows, all the XP drivers, and everything from scratch, and I'm still having problems. CJ - It's interesting, there seems to be more support all the time from major hardware/ software makers for Linux. the more that it happens, the more people will migrate to linux, and that could force Microsoft to start making better products (which I kinda doubt) or start to lose it's hold on the market. - David P.S. When I install Linux I'll keep posting on how it goes but it's going to be a while because I just ordered my CDs. Last edited by d_kendal; 03-27-2002 at 06:38 PM. |
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#8
03-27-2002, 06:22 PM
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| I've got an XP machine, a Windows2000 machine, a Win98 (non-SE) machine, a Linux machine (Redhat), and I've spent most of my professional life working on and supporting Macs. They all suck (at times). My personal favorite is Windows2000. Stable, well-behaved, and not TOO automated. But, if I was starting from scratch at this very moment, I'd consider going Mac. A couple of lifetimes ago I was an apprentice carpenter, and I don't remember once any of the journeymen sitting around comparing hammers or boycotting saws because of who manufactures them. My (ex) father-in-law is a mechanic at a Dodge dealership. I once asked him who made the best ratchets. He said "you know, I've never thought about it". Computer maintenance can end up being a hobby in of itself, much like model trains, bonzai trees, or audiophilia. That's fine, as long as its recognized as such. But to me a computer is just another hammer. |
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#9
03-27-2002, 07:50 PM
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| Doug explains "But to me a computer is just another hammer." Very true, Doug. And all David wants, I believe, is a "hammer that doesn't stop working when he needs it". |
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#10
03-27-2002, 07:57 PM
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| exactly CJ! I just want something that works. thats why I laugh every time I hear anything about "Microsoft Works". Doug, do you use a GUI on your Redhat machine (KDE or Gnome)? and if so what do you think of them? - David |
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#11
03-27-2002, 08:08 PM
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| Gnome...it's ok...tried KDE but liked Gnome better...can't really say why. I can recommend Redhat. I don't use the machine for anything productive, it's just an old box I put Linux on to familiarize myself with it. Most low-level things are just too darn hard, and it's not like I enjoy learning curves I was having fun until I tried to install Samba so I could put it on my Win network.Linux is NOT for ppl that view computers as hammers It's more a lifestyle choice than an operating system. |
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#12
03-27-2002, 08:59 PM
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| I'm not exactly into learning curves myself, but if it means I won't have to deal with Windows much more, then I'll do it almost without question. lol, I like the hammer analogy . it's true that it's a different lifestyle, almost all the people I've met who use Linux are a LOT different than your average Windows user.- David |
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#13
03-27-2002, 10:10 PM
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| Hi David! Have you examined other possibilities behind some of your computer problems? I read back over a few of your posts and it just strikes me as really strange that reinstalling XP is not clearing up some of the stuff. What kind of processor / motherboard combination do you have? When you mentioned programs locking up and crashing, it reminded of heat problems I have had in the past. I had a computer at work once, that seemed to crash like clockwork every 10 to 15 minutes. It took me a whole day to realize the fan had croaked and I guess the build up of heat was causing the system to crash. (I'm pretty embarrassed that it took me that long to realize such an obvious problem!) |
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#14
03-27-2002, 10:22 PM
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| Hi Greg, I've been wondering if it's a hardware thing too. I have a Celeron 950 Mhz processor and an AOpen AX34 II Motherboard and the fan is working just fine. I've checked through everything in the device manager and there's no problems there. the wierd part of all this is it crashes most frequently on the net (and its not because of viruses or bad programs - I'm careful and check thngs out all the time) but it hasn't been as bad as usual lately since I've reloaded, its mostly been other strange problems. - David |
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#15
03-27-2002, 10:30 PM
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| You might want to check for a bios update, updated video drivers, etc... I doubt that is the problem, but it never hurts to cover all the possibilities. Do you have anything "modified"  You know, like a massively overclocked Geforce card? hehehe |
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#16
03-28-2002, 04:08 AM
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| David, I also had a machine that was crashing all the time. I finally found the problem (after researching the error messages on the net) that it was a problem with the video card and network software. Since I couldn't run out and get a new video card, I reduced the "hardware acceleration" of the card, and it worked fine. And, I also had another machine that had a problem with the video card overheating. Everthing would work fine for about an hour, and then all sorts of weird stuff would start happening. If left the cover off the machine, it worked fine. I replaced the video card and it was fine. |
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#17
03-28-2002, 06:24 AM
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| Wow!! The number of problems you've had is astounding! I've had XP since early January, and it has proven to be the most stable envirnoment I've had so far. It only froze up once on a hard lock, and a few times when I was able to simply end the task of the program running at the time. This is the first time I've heard about problems of this magnitude. Hopefully you'll find the problem soon (and it's not Windows related.) Ed |
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#18
03-28-2002, 06:42 AM
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| For what it's worth, I've had every operating system imaginable crash on me. I've also got a machine running Win98 that I haven't rebooted since last year. The worst bout of crashes I've ever had were all on Macs, and the only time I've ever crashed so bad it took the hard-drive with it was with Linux. But these are my own experiences, and computers are far too complicated and situations far too unique to draw any sort of sweeping conclusions. I had an interesting conversation a couple of years ago with a salesman at a car leasing company. It turns out red cars crash the most, and white cars crash the least. So we should all drive white cars |
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#20
03-28-2002, 08:31 AM
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| < It turns out red cars crash the most, and white cars crash the least. > I'm going right out to repaint my car! David, I'm sure that there are things other than Windows XP causing your multitude of problems, and the other folks here have given some areas to check. I don't remember you mentioning how much memory your machine has - my cable connection will stop working sometimes when my memory resources get low (like when I'm running PShop, PageMaker, Word, AND downloading graphics from the web). I can be on the web, and then the pages stop loading. Just one more area to consider. |
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#21
03-28-2002, 08:40 AM
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| Mac prices I don't think the old agrument about Mac hardware and software being so much more expensive was ever true and is even less true today. I can buy the same printer as my PC friends for the same price, PhotoShop is the same price, OS 10.1 (the newest operating system) is less than you paid for XP and it's very stable. Add to that the fact that when you buy a new Mac, you don't have to go back to the store for cables and such (they come right in the box), also every Mac has a built in Ethernet card (so when you want to get a DSL connection you don't have to shell out $$ for a card). Every Mac comes with a good sound card etc. For $1,900 CDN ($1,500 US), I put a new iMac on my desk and within 15 minutes I had transferred all my stuff from the old one to the new one, 5 minutes after that, I was all hooked up to the Internet. When you consider the millions of lines of code that go into any operating system, it's a wonder they work as well as they do, but I'll wager that my Mac doesn't crash as often or as destructively as any Windows machine which translates into more productive hours over the life of the machine. And BTW, the productive life of a Mac has proven to be much longer than any PC I've ever seen. I had both a Mac and a PC at work - they had to upgrade the PC 3 times before they had to upgrade the Mac. Just my 2 cents worth. Margaret |
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#22
03-28-2002, 01:16 PM
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| Thanks for all the helpfull replies! Greg - I'll have to look into the BIOS I haven't really checked that out. I haven't overclocked anything (my video card is a Nvidia TNT2 32MB AGP) partly because the performance is fine from everything and I want my hardware to last as long as possible. Vikki - thanks for the tips. I checked everything out for DriectX and it's all fine. there wasn't any options to lower the hardware acceleration, you could only disable it, so i just left it the way it was. My fan is working great and my machine is fairly cool, so I don't think it's a problem with overheating. Ed - I've been really surprised how many people aren't having problems with XP and actually like it. personally I hate it and can't get away from it fast enough. even if I do get all my problems with it figured out (unless some of them are in the 65,000 bugs in Windows on last count) I still really don't like Windows. I keep learning about how KDE/Linux works and I think it's much more my style. Doug - heheh I'll have to remeber to get a white car when I start looking.CJ - I've got 256MB Ram, and for virtual memory I put it to 512MB (twice my RAM which is recommended) and set that for minimum and max. (I've heard that you can have problems if you don't set them to the same number) Margaret -Thanks, thats interesting. I get all my PC hardware OEM so it's quite inexpensive. my other complaints about Macs are: (correct me if I'm wrong), most of the Mac hardware seems to be quite small which doesn't really leave much room for upgrades. I like to have a big PC box so I can have multiple hard drives, CD-RW, Dvd rom, floppy drive, zip drive etc. etc. and I've noticed that all the Mac processors seem to be way behind in speed ( the fastest Ive seen is maybe 800Mhz compared to 2 Ghz for PCs). and it may not be like this in other places but here in Edmonton, whenever I see mac stuff advertised, it costs more then PC stuff. - David |
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#23
03-28-2002, 01:59 PM
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| David - The whole mhz. thing is a bit misleading. It's more of an Intel marketing gimmick than anything. I have had a Mac and used them at work and an 800mhz G4 can keep up with much faster Pentiums, especially in applications like Photoshop. Remember that Apple is able to design their OS around very specific hardware since they do not allow "clones" to be made. This helps to make Macs very stable and very fast machines. Windows, on the other hand, has to be designed to run on a huge variety of hardware configurations. |
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#24
03-28-2002, 03:05 PM
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| I was starting to suspect there was something like that going on for processors. PC processor names can be misleading too - for example AMD Athlon XP 1800 processers aren't 1.8 Ghz, they're 1.6 or 7 I think. - David |
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#25
03-28-2002, 03:38 PM
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| The way the MHZ thing was explained to me was that the PC folks made a longer pipe, Mac made a fatter one; therefore more data can pass through the pipe at one time on a Mac. I suppose you're right about the ability to expand a Mac, but most of us don't ever open the box to add more stuff (nor do we need to); on the other hand, I know some folks who open the box and throw the cover away so it doesn't matter how big it was. You're absolutely right. If your aim is to play around with components buy a PC. If you want to get work done and never intend to open the box, buy a Mac. I just priced an iBook with 256 MB of RAM, CD-RW, DVD ROM and 20 GB hard drive $2,500 CDN; Future Shop has an HP laptop with similar equipment for almost the same price. HP products are notorious for failing in the most destructive ways and it comes pre-loaded with Windows XP so based on what I'm hearing, I would have to buy a new operating system right away. When I go to buy a laptop, I don't care what platform it is - I'll be using it as a word processor - but I'll likely go with the iBook because I know what I'm getting. The other argument against Macs that I frequently hear is that there isn't as much software for Macs. My question always is, "how much software do you need?" I've owned Macs exclusively and never felt deprived of any software. I earned my living on a Mac for most of my IT career, and was able to get the job done to my employer's satisfaction. I'm not bashing PC's but it irks me that most of the arguments against Macs are not well founded. I've even heard them described as "harder to use" - who do they think invented the GUI interface LOL Margaret |
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#26
03-28-2002, 03:43 PM
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| Quote:
Hope you figure it out! Randy |
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#27
03-28-2002, 05:00 PM
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| Margaret - you're right, Apple invented the GUI then Microsoft ripped it off and invented Windows. thats one of the (many) reasons I don't like Microsoft - practically nothing they've made is original. Randy - I downloaded the latest version of ZoneAlarm when I reinstalled windows and it seems to be a lot more stable now, except that I'm having new problems like when i lose my internet connection and reconnect, quite often I can connect but nothing can actually get through until after I've rebooted and connected again. thanks, - David |
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#28
03-28-2002, 05:15 PM
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This is still sounding an awful lot like a firewall issue. On the disconnect Zone Alarm is still functioning and then when you reconnect I having a feeling that the process is being blocked. I would seriously consider completely removing Zone Alarm from the system and seeing what happens from there. Unfortunatley, the only way to get it completely out of your system is by doing a clean install of XP. Zone Alarm really works its way into the registry and finding all the keys is almost impossible. I can sense the disdain for microsoft in your posts but I must tell you (and maybe I'm one of the lucky ones) XP has been by far the most stable OS I have used to date. Win 2000 Pro was a close second but wasn't quite as stable as this has been. I think the reason behind this is that when a program crashed in 2000 the whole operating system needed a reboot, not so in XP. Also, disable the internal firewall if you happen to have that running. If none of this works, I find that a well placed bullet near the processor ends all worries about the system ever being able to crash again! Randy |
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#29
03-28-2002, 05:44 PM
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| Hi Randy, I'd already disabled the internal firewall so I tried just uninstalling ZoneAlarm, and so far anyway it seem to be working. Windows XP is reasonably stable, but its still no comparison to Linux/UNIX. I once read that a UNIX box ran for 11 years only being rebooted once to install new hardware!! lol instead of shooting my computer, I'd rather just burn my copy of Windows and intall Linux. - David |
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#30
03-28-2002, 05:46 PM
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| Actually, the modern day GUI was an invention of Xerox PARC. Apple essentially bought it (some say stole it) from them and applied the technology to the LISA and then later to the first Macintosh. (Plus, they hired a bunch of Xerox engineers!) Microsoft came along with Windows, but I would not say they "stole" the idea. In fact, at the time, there were several GUIs in existence (GEM, GEOS, etc...) and they were all competing for market share. The common ancestory of ALL was Xerox. |
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