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Sorry; political vent.

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  #41  
Old 10-04-2008, 12:25 PM
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hawkeye60 hawkeye60 is offline
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

Very interesting reading but yet I see no actions that would lead to believe he is some sort of closet racist/communist and that he is hiding this from us as your post suggests. I like to take people at their word until they prove otherwise.

BTW, nowhere that I am know of, does Obama ever call Farrakhan a mentor, advisor, guide, confidante or consultant as you claim. If you have proof of that I'd like to see it, if it's simply an extropolation, it would tend to cast doubt over anything else you say that isn't firmly substantiated.

What I am looking at solely is his plan for the next four years and his voting record, not the possible influences of past associations however questionable that you feel they may be.

The same with McCain, I'm looking at what he plans for the next four years and his voting record. I'm not looking back to the Keating Five, or his father in law's criminal past, alledged connections to Kemper Marley, or the names he called his wife, etc., etc.

For me it comes down to not wanting another four years like the past eight, and for all the maverick/change talk, I don't hear anything that substantially separates him from Bush and his policies.

I hope we can all disagree and stay friends.
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  #42  
Old 10-04-2008, 12:44 PM
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NCP Doug NCP Doug is offline
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

What ever happend to the concept of citizen government? We have career politicians who, from the time they are elected, do nothing but build their own importance and give and take favors with little or no regard to the populations they serve. Almost every one of these entrenched individuals are lawyers, word smiths and slight of hand crooks who (Bill Clinton) define what the definition of "is" is! We, the voters, just keep electing these jerks - so I suppose we do get what we deserve. We can limit the terms these folks serve by exercising our voting rights, but we don't because of the $$ spent on 30 second sound bites, and we don't research the whole story.

I could not believe that the Government would pressure lending institutions to fund zero down payment, interest only home loans without requiring documentation on income, job stability and credit history.

I suppose you could look at current mess as the unintended consequence of a nobel idea gone very bad.
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  #43  
Old 10-04-2008, 02:16 PM
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye60 View Post
Very interesting reading but yet I see no actions that would lead to believe he is some sort of closet racist/communist and that he is hiding this from us as your post suggests. I like to take people at their word until they prove otherwise.

BTW, nowhere that I am know of, does Obama ever call Farrakhan a mentor, advisor, guide, confidante or consultant as you claim. If you have proof of that I'd like to see it, if it's simply an extropolation, it would tend to cast doubt over anything else you say that isn't firmly substantiated.

What I am looking at solely is his plan for the next four years and his voting record, not the possible influences of past associations however questionable that you feel they may be.

The same with McCain, I'm looking at what he plans for the next four years and his voting record. I'm not looking back to the Keating Five, or his father in law's criminal past, alledged connections to Kemper Marley, or the names he called his wife, etc., etc.

For me it comes down to not wanting another four years like the past eight, and for all the maverick/change talk, I don't hear anything that substantially separates him from Bush and his policies.

I hope we can all disagree and stay friends.
Sure, we can stay friends, Hawk. :-)

I understand your concern for the Farrakhan allusion. It was a reference to the fact that Rev. Wright and the Trinity United Christian church's magazine (Trumpet) recognized Farrakhan and said he "truly epitomized greatness" and Wright praised his honesty and integrity. There is no direct link other than of Obama and Wright and their relationship over 20+ years. Here's a link that may explain my concern for the "oblique" reference.

Obama is pure politician. I'm convinced he will say or do anything to get elected. I can't separate him from his propensity to surround himself with far left liberals and radicals, known communists and proponents of Marxist/Socialist doctrine all his life. He's slick and knows he can't run on these tenets, but has filed off the rough edges and attempted to disavow (throw under the bus) these (known) influences from this sector.

His constant flip flops on every issue is telling. He was very comfortable in his primary campaign because he was speaking to like-minded liberals. As the Democratic nominee, he's moved more and more to the center because he knows he needs the "blue color" vote.

Looking at Obama's voting record is like looking into fog. He's been out on the campaign trail so much that he hasn't been around to vote. Here's the track record (if you can wade through all the "not voting" entries). Here's a similar page for McCain which is organized by bill subject.

Before he 'excused' himself from Senatorial duty to go campaign, Obama was active in basically one issue in the US Senate. Ethics reform. A nice safe, everybody wants it issue. Other than that, and I have tried to do my research, I can't find anything of significance that he has done for the American People. One accomplishment, one bill, one selfless action that he has fulfilled to show me the strenghth of his character.

Yes, it's hard to separate McCain from Bush. They both are Republicans and because of that have agreed on many issues, but McCain has stood on his own many times against the Republican establishment. Indication to me that he is his own man.

We all know McCain's POW story, but not many know or remember that John McCain, in spite of years of torture by the North Vietnamese, was instrumental in the mid 90's under Clinton, in restoring diplomatic and trade relations with his former tormentors and working with the NV to account for the remaining missing or dead in Vietnam. This speaks volumes to me about McCain's character. To forgive his captors and work to seek normal relations? WOW. I don't know if I could do that. Could you? Could Obama?
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  #44  
Old 10-04-2008, 02:35 PM
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

Sorry to not get back to you all. Yes; we all are friends here and we all have opinions. I believe in letting opinions out before the bottle bursts. You all already know I don't like any of the above.

The Keating 5 was definitely a tarnish on McCains record, but I recently saw a special about this and you can see that McCain's involvement was of shame when he found out what was really happening. There is a definite difference between intentionally getting involved with conspiracy and accidentally getting associated with something. Still, McCain was not my first pick by any stretch of the imagination, though his service to his country is admirable for sure.

By the way, I'm not likeing what I'm seeing in Ohio either. If it looks like a fish, and smells like a fish, it is a fish. Barak is clever for sure, but distrustful is an understatement in my book. He used the system to prevent his competitors from even getting on the ballot, not to say that other politicians (on both sides) haven't done this either, but still, I stand by what I've mentioned earlier.

As a side note, I got me a new sign yesterday afternoon, and I noticed my neighbor got her's replaced too. Let's see how long they stay. By the way, there will be a surprise for anyone who tries to handle this sign again (other then me of course).
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2008, 03:09 PM
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

McCain doesn't flip flop?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEn4awr5UTA

You can talk about Rev. Wright with Obama and talk about Rev. Hagee whom Mccain sought out for endorsement. So tell me the difference with McCain and Hagee. They both condemned controversial statements made by each:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwL-8...eature=related

To me it's rather meaningless, what they say they will do with the next four years is what counts. Any of the descriptive adjectives you used for Obama are purely subjective, and could easily apply to McCain as well. It depends strictly on your point of view.

Saying McCain is his own man when he doesn't offer anything new is meaningless, pure rhetoric just like his maverick claim. Just another talking point. He's all about change, but never says what he'll change. Palin says he's the only one lookin' out for ya. But never says how he's doing that. Pure rhetoric, no substance.

More tax breaks for big corporations on the premise that they will use it to expand thier businesses and hire people is the same folly we've heard now for the past eight years. On that basis of belief McCain wants to make the tax breaks for the wealthy permanent, the same tax breaks he was initially against because they left out the middle class.

As I said before I am looking at what the candidates offer for the future and they couldn't be farther apart. Mccain and Bush are practically the same on every issue that I know of which effects the average citizen.

The fact the he forgave his former captors is great, but it's his policies and plans that I care about. People can't survive just on McCain's character. They need jobs, healthcare, a strong economy, tax relief, etc.

Here is Mccains tax plan, taken from his website. If you are this group, great for you. I am not and most everyone I know is not in this group.

Taxes: Simpler, Fair, Pro-Growth, And Competitive
Keep Tax Rates Low: Entrepreneurs are at the heart of American innovation, growth and prosperity. Entrepreneurs create the ultimate job security – a new, better opportunity if your current job goes away. Entrepreneurs should not be taxed into submission. John McCain will keep the top tax rate at 35 percent, maintain the 15 percent rates on dividends and capital gains, and phase-out the Alternative Minimum Tax. Small businesses are the heart of job growth; raising taxes on them hurts every worker. John McCain's opponent wants to increase the marginal income tax rate which applies to the nation's 23million small business owners who pay their taxes under the individual tax rate system.

Cut The Corporate Tax Rate From 35 To 25 Percent: A lower corporate tax rate is essential to keeping good jobs in the United States. America was once a low-tax business environment, but as our trade partners lowered their rates, America failed to keep pace. American workers deserve the chance to make fine products here and sell them around the globe.

Allow First-Year Deduction, Or "Expensing", Of Equipment And Technology Investments: Americanworkers need the finest technologies to compete. Expensing of equipment and technology will provide an immediate boost to capital expenditures and reward investments in cutting-edge technologies.

Establish Permanent Tax Credit Equal To 10 Percent Of Wages Spent On R&D: This reform will greatly simplify the tax code, reward activity in the United States, and make us more competitive with other countries. A permanent credit will provide an incentive to innovate and remove uncertainty. At a time when our companies need to be more competitive, we need to provide a permanent incentive to innovate, and
remove the uncertainty now hanging over businesses as they make R&D investment decisions.

Allow Families To Keep Their Businesses: John McCain John McCain proposes reducing the Estate Tax rate to 15 percent and permit a generous $10 million exemption.

Here is Obama's from his website. I am in this group and just about everyone I know is in this group:

Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families: Barack Obama will restore fairness to the tax code and provide 150 million workers the tax relief they deserve. Obama will create a new “Making Work Pay” tax credit of up to $500 per person, or $1,000 per working family. This refundable income tax credit will provide direct relief to American families who face the regressive payroll tax system. It will offset the payroll tax on the first $8,100 of their earnings while still preserving the important principle of a dedicated revenue source for Social Security.

The “Making Work Pay” tax credit will completely eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans. The tax credit will also provide relief to self-employed small business owners who struggle to pay both the employee and employer portion of the payroll tax. The “Making Work Pay” tax credit offsets some of this selfemployment tax as well.
Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans: The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) estimated in 2004that it took more than 28 hours for an individual to complete his/her tax filing, and that half of the taxpayers filing the “easy” forms ended up paying a tax preparer to do it for them. Barack Obama will dramatically simplify tax filings so that millions of Americans will be able to do their taxes in less than 5 minutes.
Currently, the IRS receives Americans’ financial information directly from employers and banks. Obama willensure that the IRS uses this information to give taxpayers the option of a pre-filled tax forms to verify, sign and return to the IRS or online. This will eliminate the need for Americans to hire expensive tax preparers and togather information that the federal government already has on file. Experts estimate that the Obama proposalwill save Americans up to 200 million total hours of work and aggravation and up to $2 billion in tax preparer fees.

Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit: The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit provides too little relief to families that struggle to afford child care expenses. Currently the credit only covers up to 35 percent of the first $3,000 of child care expenses a family incurs for one child and the first $6,000 for a family with two or more children. And the credit is not refundable, which means that upper-income families disproportionately benefit while families who make under $50,000 a year receive less than a third of the tax credit. Barack Obama will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for their child care expenses. Coupled with Obama’s “Making Work Pay” tax credit, this proposal will help put more money directly in the pockets of hardworking low and middle-income parents.
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2008, 03:55 PM
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

That stupid email.
It's $425 per person.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2008, 04:22 PM
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hawkeye60 hawkeye60 is offline
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

A very intellectual response.
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  #48  
Old 10-06-2008, 05:23 PM
smak smak is offline
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

It was stupid. An "F" on Math.

What do you mean? I heard people talking about how great that email was and how it could solve everything.
No one did the math. Especially the author. Dumb.
Every computer has a calculator.

"Stupid" too harsh? Misinformation isn't just stupid, it's harmful- leading people to make bad decisions.

Last edited by smak; 10-06-2008 at 05:33 PM.
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2008, 06:53 PM
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hawkeye60 hawkeye60 is offline
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smak View Post
It was stupid. An "F" on Math.

What do you mean? I heard people talking about how great that email was and how it could solve everything.
No one did the math. Especially the author. Dumb.
Every computer has a calculator.

"Stupid" too harsh? Misinformation isn't just stupid, it's harmful- leading people to make bad decisions.
You've totally lost me as to what you are even talking about. What email????
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2008, 07:11 PM
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Re: Sorry; political vent.

The difference between Rev Wright and Rev. Hagee? McCain was not a member of Hagee's church and he didn't sit in Hagee's pews for 20 years listening to Black Theology spewed from the pulpit. Yes, they both disputed the Revs', but I think Wright had more influence on Obama than Hagee ever did on McCain.

Taxes...? If you think Obama and the Dems won't raise your taxes I hope you are right, but the Democrats have always been about raising my taxes and giving my money away in entitlement programs. Redistribution of wealth is called Socialism. My fear is that BHO and his big spending plans will lead us even further down that road.

No body ever paid my child care expenses. Nor was I offered tax credit when I paid my own. Again, I'm tired of sending the government my money so they can give it someone else to pay for baby sitters for their kids.

Health care? Do you really want the government managing your health care? Haven't they screwed up Social Security, Medicare, Prescription Drug Program, education, etc. already? I have been self insured for 25+ years. Broken bones, gall bladder and 'female plumbing' surgery. I'm self employed, I didn't have an employer paying a share of the premium or deductable. You do what you have to do. You give up 50" t.v. screens, second cars, designer clothes, CD's and XBox toys for the kids. It's not easy, but it can be done.

I guess I'm just sick and tired of handing over my money so that it can be given in entitlements to someone else that 'expects' it, even demands it. I'll help anyone who is willing to help themselves. I stood in line at the grocery store a couple weeks ago behind a woman paying her bill with food stamps. Four kids in tow. I only had a couple items and checked out quickly. This woman was still loading up her Expedition (with spinners) when I got to my 12 year old Pontiac. There's something not right about that.
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