The journey has begun into the world of Retouchpro

[nschiller]

Hi all,

I joined recently and finally got around to writing a short introduction about myself. I've been working as a photographer most of my adult life but it is collecting 19th and early 20th century photography which really turns me on. After 20 year of collecting I'm now in the process of starting an online photo gallery. To begin with I need to start by scanning thousands of albumen and silver gelatin prints plus equally as many glass and gelatin negatives. I have read every thread on the subject and have learned a considerable of information. I hope to be able to share my knowledge on the history of photography particularly as it pertains to the development and history of photography in North Africa and the Middle East. That is where I have spend the majority of my life.

My first question has to do with buying the correct scanner, is the Epson Perfection V750-M Pro Scanner still the scanner of chice for many working with od shaped glass and gelatin negatives?

I look forward to many in depth conversations about the question we all face in our photographic worlds

Thanks

nschiller

[creativeretouch]

Hi nschiller, welcome to the RetouchPro ...

In your case I would use a good camera & lens to create reproductions of your prints & B&W negatives. Take two chairs (for example) put a clean plain glass on them, white paper under the glass on the floor, place your negative on the glass and bounce two lights of the paper - and with your camera mounted on the tripod above the negative take the picture of the negative.

[nschiller]

Thanks for advice, I actually remember reading that on one of the postings sometime back but I forgot all about it. The technique of shooting the glass negatives on glass most probably works well for the glass negatives but I still have hundreds if not thousands of black and white gelatin negatives of various sizes and condition. What scanner would you recommend for those?

[creativeretouch]

What about the size? But I think there must be a way how to make them flat on the glass ... or what about the frame from an old enlarger?

[nschiller]

I would say the majority and 2 1/4 X 2 1/4 but then there are a lot which are 4 X 5 and all they whay up to 8 X 10. I was thinking of picking up that Ebson Perfection V700 Scanner for a lot of that work. I can see the glass negatives being copied by the process you mentioned before. But the smaller Gelatin might be difficult and very time consuming, though the idea of using an old adjustable frame for an enlarger is a good one. I got to think about that.
I have also hundres of Albumen prints. The one that are still in photo albums I will shoot on a copy stand but there are so many that are loose. How is the reproduction quality sanner vs shooting it with a camera on a repro stand with a 60mm macro?

[creativeretouch]

It depends what kind of quality you expect. I do not think that cheap scanners are good enough. Really professional scanners cost more than very good car ...

I think good camera with good lens (60mm macro should be OK, but again, you will get what you paid for) will give you much better result. You need to think about the maximum size you will finally use as well.

I remember I use to copy my own photographs framed under the glass and placed on the wall. I placed black paper (or fabric) around the lens (there was a hole for lens only) to avoid my own reflections. You do not have to frame your pictures, just put second glass on the top. It will be much cheaper than to buy pro scanner for sure ...

[Tony W]

I would be very surprised if you could not get very good quality with the Epson 750 the specs are very good and the Epson software is quite adequate although there are alternatives e.g. Vuescan or the very capable Silverfast offerings.

I bought the V500 some time ago and although limited scan size for transparancy is IMO perfectly adequate for what I need.

Having such a mixed bag to deal with I would go with the 750 in an instant over having to set up a camera.

Epson 750 Review HERE

Not sure if this of any use but I posted some results from the V500 Here scroll to post #9

[nschiller]

Thanks Tony W for that bit of info. One other question is I didn't realize that the two Ebson models have already been out on the market since 2006. I fear this day in age is that the moment you go and buy something another product comes out better and ten times cheaper. It's already happened to me before. Have you heard of anything else coming out on to the market? Also, I looked at the Ebson review you sent me and the bottom line is that the 700 looks good enough for my purposes. The advantage of the 750 is the software and since I will not be scanning any color slides (everything is either B & W neg or B&W silver prints or old sepia albumen prints).

Going back to what Creativeretouch had to say, I will most likely have to use the technique you mentioned because many of the images are 2' X 3' feet and are framed. I use do a little work on the side for an art gallery specializing in antique paintings and if the painting was glasses in a frame I had to use the technique you mentioned.

Again thanks to both of you for your continuing help

[Tony W]

I fear this day in age is that the moment you go and buy something another product comes out better and ten times cheaper

This is the risk we take and in particular regarding digital products.

While the Epsons have been on the market for a while the 700 and 750 are still top of the range at least for the home/pro? market well at least for those below $1000.

Just a suggestion relating to photographing large works of art. I used to do quite a lot of this in the 'good old analogue days' some for galleries to produce prints and postcards for sale. It was quite often a pain due to unwanted reflections etc and yes the black paper with the lens through often worked very well ocassionally used cross polarised lighting.

But now with quality digital products there is a potentially much easier way. Photograph the frame on an angle to get rid of unwanted reflections. Then in Photoshop or similar use the Transform tools to correct the view and if required use lens correction for pin or barrel distortion - could also be used for overall correction.

[nschiller]

And you think it is better to go with Epson rather than a comparably priced Canon scanner?

Yes, things have changed and now you can just correct everything on photoshop. I'm still old fashion and use a film camera when I have the luxuary too.

Thanks

[Tony W]

Originally Posted by nschiller

And you think it is better to go with Epson rather than a comparably priced Canon scanner?

I did not say that I have no experience with Canon scanners therefore do not feel qualified to comment. What I would say however is there is no reason for me to suspect the Canon models are inferior in any way. So if the specification and price are right for you then either I feel with give you enough quality.

You did mention however 8x10 film and if you want to include this for scanning you may be limited (with my V500 max size limited to 6x6cm) - does the Canon scanner cover this size?

There is no doubt in my mind that a quality dedicated film scanner such as the Nikon LS9000ED will give generally superior results for work up to 21/4 sq. - problem is finding one and if you do the price is likely to be prohibitive. I know I was looking for a secondhand unit prior to purchasing the Epson. Ebay had some offered at the time around $2000!!!!

If you are going to be scanning thousands of negatives, transparancies and and reflective material then this is going to take forever whatever method you choose for archiving. Also the strain put on the equipment would suggest going for the sturdiest unit you can find - perhaps you may need to consider 'upping the anti' and investing in a drum scanner. Hasselblad make quite a nice one at around $20,000

[creativeretouch]

Originally Posted by Tony W

Hasselblad make quite a nice one at around $20,000

Tony, for this money I would buy Hasselblad with digital back (they have discounts as well) - this would be an investment for the future ...

If you consider you will scan each picture at least 30 seconds + manual manipulation - maybe you can be faster with your camera ...

I have a scanner (Nikon Coolscan V - 35 mm) and I have scanned my old archive. The cost of Nikon Coolscan 9000 (6x6 cm) was somewhere over GBP 2000 ...

And in this case when you need to create copies of negatives + positives of different sizes?

[Tony W]

Filip, good points although I was only joking about the Hasselblad scanner I am with you I would rather buy the camera - if only I had the budget.

I understand also what you are saying about speed of scanning. I used to do copy work of smallish artwork on either 6x6cm or 5x4 of either reflective or transparancy on light box. Larger or more demanding stuff on either full plate or 10x8. It is certainly possible once set up to rattle through them quite rapidly. However even with the perfect acquisition you are still left with a digital file to manipulate in some way.

I know that the results from a dslr should be potentially very good and depending on optics possibly better than a flatbed scanner? But this maybe needs to be offset against which the OP feels to be the most convenient method and of course how good the final image is or needs to be

[nschiller]

Bottom line is I'm going to have to use a variety of techniques to do the job. Some images will be copied on a scanner; other shot through glass with a camera using a reflective white back (glass negatives) and then the larger prints shot on a copy stand.

This is a personal project for me so there is no deadline; the sooner I get going though the sooner I will b finished. Over the years I've been collecting and now I've gotten to a point where something has to be done with all these images. However before I can begin with the online gallery I need to digitize as many as possible; working on one theme at a time.

I used the Nikon Coolscan 5000 to digitize most of my personal 35mm archives and the results were amazing. Actually when I have a free moment like now I stuff 50 or so in the Nikon feeder and let it rip. Problem is I'm pretty much finishing up the slides and am stuck with the bulk which was either shot in B&W 35mm or color 35mm. And since I was never big on contact sheets I have to look through a good old lupe and do the editing the old fashion way.

Again thanks for all the advice and I'm glad I've signed up to Retouchpro