Nationalized Healthcare

[CJ Swartz]

I'm so glad you brought this up, Doug, because I have wondered how the UK and especially the Canadian systems really work -- the Canadian system was discussed as a possible model in the early 90's during our last "national debate" over healthcare reform.

Got to looking via Google for some hopeful news about reform, and came up with some recommendations, and even more frightening data about our current system.

The human cost of medical errors is high. Based on the findings of one major study, medical errors kill some 44,000 people in U.S. hospitals each year. Another study puts the number much higher, at 98,000. Even using the lower estimate, more people die from medical mistakes each year than from highway accidents, breast cancer, or AIDS.

INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE Division of Health Care Services
The majority of medical errors do not result from individual recklessness, the report says, but from basic flaws in the way the health system is organized. Stocking patient-care units in hospitals, for example, with certain full-strength drugs - even though they are toxic unless diluted - has resulted in deadly mistakes. And illegible writing in medical records has resulted in administration of a drug for which the patient has a known allergy.

Almost 40 million people in this country lack health insurance, more than the populations of Texas, Florida and Connecticut combined. The uninsured are more likely to have poorer health and die prematurely than those with insurance, but they do not suffer alone. Nearly 1 in 5 families have at least one uninsured member.

Institute of Medicine report -- Health Insurance is a Family Matter

[Toad]

Well, as a Canadian who has lived in the US, here is my 2 cents.

The Canadian health care system is subject to some underfunding, debates between the federal and provincial governments over jurisdiction, and users can experience very long waits for non-critical surgery, and for routine health problems - i.e. showing up at a hospital with a broken arm.

Other than that it is pretty good. Everybody has care, and very few people die that might have been saved if they had insurance. Our record of false diagnosis - unintentional malpractice is about the same as the US, but we tend not to litigate unless there is obvious negligence.

So the long and short: if you have first class health care insurance through your employer, or you are wealthy, then the US system wins hands down - no contest.

If the above doesn't apply to you - good luck. You are better off in Canada.

[gland]

Health care here in the US has become a vicious circle.

The insurance companies are "slow paying" the doctors and challenging charges.

The doctors are raising their prices because of the slow cash flow problem. Along with this malpractice insurance for doctors has sky rocketed because of the jillion dollar lawsuits.

I think a big help would be to limit the amount of these lawsuits.

Back in 1987 I had some major surgery. My hospital bill was about $21k. That was a lot of money in 1987. The insurance company decided they needed to audit the bill. Great!!! For the next 6 months the hospital kept sending me reminders that the insurance company hadn't paid yet.

After almost 7 months the insurance company paid all but $5.00 of the bill. Why on earth did this take so long?

[winwintoo]

My sister who has lived in the states for most of her life, was working in a surgeon's office as an operating room technician. She tells a story about one claim for an x-ray that was challenged by the insurance company. The x-ray was done while the patient was in the hospital and the insurance company claimed that it could have been done as an outpatient.

The insurance company wasn't convinced even when it was explained to them that the patient was under general anaesthetic at the time the x-ray was taken and the surgeon was in the middle of performing knee surgery.

I have to agree with Toad. Our various levels of government always squabble about who should pay, but somehow we all get looked after and despite what seems like long waiting lists for elective surgery, we don't hear much about people not being treated in a timely manner.

Take care,
Margaret

[DJ Dubovsky]

The American Medical system is a round about way that Lawyers get rich while everybody else goes broke!

Margaret,
I suspect that insurance was an HMO. Sounds like something they do.
DJ

[chiquitita]

As DJ said, many of our doctors are closing up practice because they can't afford the insurance anymore, and the ones that don't, basically throw a prescription at you and walk out of the room within 30 seconds because they overbook themselves.

The pickle I am in is this:

I have a pre-existing condition that started in my teen years. All that time I was covered by my father's plan which was Champus and another governtment benefit. Then, when I turned 23, I was no longer covered by that but I was in college and didn't have a job. I found an obscure insurance that would take me with my pre-existing condition, but they wouldn't cover the condition for another year. By the time the year went by, I finished college and moved out of state. It turned out that when I went to find out about coverage of my condition, they said that they contracted those types of ailments out to another insurance company that didn't operate within the state where I live now. I couldn't change insurance companies, because I had developed a few other problems that then wouldn't be covered under a new plan because they would be pre-existing. So now I live without coverage of the original problem, and I still pay $250 a month for insurance and another $86 a month for the prescription that they don't cover. To be able to go to the doctor for this problem I have to make an appointment and say it is about something else and hope the doctor has mercy on me and bills the insurance under another code, else they won't pay for the visit.


If you can follow that story, congratulations... such is the state of healthcare in this country. Luckily, I have recently found a doctor who is very sympathetic to my problem.

[G. Couch]

Originally posted by chiquitita
Luckily, I have recently found a doctor who is very sympathetic to my problem.

Good for you! Glad to know a few still exist...

[CJ Swartz]

chiquitita, that's a story that tells so much about what is wrong with our system and what needs to be fixed. Have you ever talked with an insurance broker (one who handles many different companies instead of promoting only the one he sells) to see if there is another company that would handle all of your pre-existing ailments in the future, at a rate that would be more affordable? (asking for the moon, I know).

A friend of mine has chronic asthma caused by an on-the-job accident. He has to change insurance companies regularly to keep insured for this problem. He finds coverage, and then when it's time to renew -- they don't want him anymore. Probably because he actually USED the insurance instead of just paying premiums.

[chiquitita]

That is how we found the one I have.. I have also been to ehealthinsurance.com but the problem is that I have had all sorts of problems and tests in the last couple of years so I would have lots of pre-existing conditions, even if the original ONE wasn't applied.

[Mig]

I grew up in Canada and now work in the medical field here in the US for the past 10 years. Both systems have their assets and deficits. The two systems reflect differences in their culture. The distribution of wealth in the US is different than in Canada. The US has an hour-glass shaped distribution of wealth, while the Canadian population has more of a bell curve shape, with a very large middle class.
I wouldn't hesitate to say the Canadian system is superior to the American system, but then there's significant differences in the two cultures and the Canadian system may not work in the US.
As for illegal aliens getting free care, I admit it might put people off, but in the end it actually pays off, because it helps contribute to a healthy population. The child born in the US with illegal parents doesn't have a clue what country (or what world) he or she is being delivered into. It's in our best interest to protect that child. That's one of the reasons why Canada is a healthier society on many levels; Canada puts a premium on the care of the "group" over the "individual". The whole of the population is treated similarly. Mental health is also not as much a stigma in Canada as it is appears to be in the US.
To illustrate the differences in health in the two countries, there are more guns per capita in Canada than there are in the US. I grew up in Montreal, population 1.5 million, which has about 80 murders a year; I now live next door to a city just outside of SF with a population of 150,000 but a murder rate of 100+ per year.
My point is, a healthy population, from birth to adulthood, is in the best interests of everybody. Unfortunately the system in the US doesn't promote this throughout.

Mig

[Sanda]

Here in Australia we have a national heath scheme as well as private insurance. The national scheme covers everybody for free hospital care(no choice of doctor) and for some visits to the GP. It's quite complicated and is beginning to fail. Most doctors visits are free if they are part of the government scheme of"bulk billing" but there are those who are not . For those who are not the paitent pays and claims back a set amount from the government there is usually a difference between what these Drs charge and what the govenment refunds. Then on top of that you can have private heath insurance which is not usually tied to employment but rather you pay for it yourself. The benefits of private insurance are a choice of Dr when in hospital, private hospital cover and a heap of other little benefits including a tax rebate for holding private insurance. Our government is trying to encourage everybody to take out private heath insurance and penalize people through taxes if they don't if they are above a certain income level. It's becoming more and more complicated with each new government.