Professional, Amateur, Hobbyist?

[Ant]

RE: Retouchers

Just trying to figure out who's who and what's what here at RP as I only found the site about an hour ago.

Where would you put yourself?

[john_opitz]

I'm a photographer as well. I'm from the big apple as well. Relocated to Gods' country, Texas.
Welcome by the way.

[Ant]

Thanks for the welcome John. I too am a photographer. What do you shoot?

[john_opitz]

<I too am a photographer. What do you shoot?>

High School Seniors majority. Portfolio work. Not as much,as with the H.S.S. though. Weddings, I don't do anymore... Sat. I'm at the studio with the seniors. For the portfolio work.......I work with an agent/talent scout. The last big thing I did was for Dillard's(clothes).......their here in Texas(dept. store). And Tommy(cologne). But it was not product. More fashion.

Hows' the photography feild up in New York? I worked with a shooter(Russell Beal) when I was starting out....,in New York. He was a nice guy. He was a fashion photographer. A nice guy.

John

[Ant]

NY's alright. It's pretty slow everywhere at the moment, and I can only talk about the last year because I've only been here that long. What with the economy and post 9/11, last year was pretty slim with the exception of the last month. I think the ad agencies had a lot of money earmarked that they hadn't used and we got slammed with work from them all of December.

A friend of mine has an international school portrait business and he loves it. He's shooting digital.

I try to focus on fashion, but unless it's ad work, it doesn't pay a lot. Also do the occasional editorial shoots and evironmental portraits. I like all aspects of photography, so I do whatever pays at the time, although I won't be shooting sports anytime soon.

[john_opitz]

Yes, slow all over,as I'm told. Digital is the way today, as they say. But I can shoot either way. No favorite here!........Just like I said to another photographer, who asked me this question:
What's your favorite camera!?..... My reply: One that doesn't break down!!!
One question I like to ask of you? Since your a photographer. What do you think of the modeling sites you see on the web today(the ones you pay to see models) and do you feel this is a good business for "certain" photographers? Even though some of the pictures look like their boyfriend/girlfriend shot em'.
Their are a lot of "legit" ones(true modeling sites). But the well known ones(agencies) still don't see it as an outlet. Maybe for the above reason. I know some of these sites,where they display the girls'/guys' pictures(for fashion,print work) to be discovered as models, just take their money....... I know better on how to get in the modeling field. It's a lot harder than displaying your pictures on the monitor.
Two Models I work with(true models). Not internet models(as I call them). Don't care for the web thing, to be noticed. One works the L.A...,TX...,N.Y., circuit. The other appeals to the Latin market mostly for work. Both have agents, to do the discovering for them. I guess they don't need the web?

BTW, Tell the New Yorkers' that I really miss the pizza up there. But I found one place down here. The guy is from N.Y. as well. He tells me it's in the water. No joke. The water to make the dough...... I don't know, though. Sounds like I should be a poet.
And try to get a good hero down here! New York always had good bread. Texans think I'm talking about a hollywood character, when I say a hero.
One other thing, check out the action section. Some good actions are here.

John

[Vikki]

Hi, and welcome aboard.
Can you elaborate on the terms "low-mid end" and "hi end"?
I do freelance restorations, and work for a photography studio, retouching (mostly children, families, and hs seniors), digital manipulations, and restorations. I'm guessing that would be low-mid end?
Vikki
(also in New York)

[d_kendal]

I mostly just do this as a hobby (I can't find the time to get anything really started business wise) but I have been getting myself a fair amount of freelance work lately.

- David

[winwintoo]

I had thought I might earn some extra money doing retouch work to suplement my retirement income. I quickly found that while I could acquire the technical skills - remember how to use the tools - I lacked the artistic "eye" that was required and I was spending many more hours than I could hope to be paid for trying to achieve the look the customer was asking for.

Also, I'm not a sales oriented person and found it hard to "sell" a product that I was never satisfied with.

I admire those of you who possess the qualities demanded of this profession.

For now, I'll continue to develop my technical skill and leave the artistry to others.

Margaret

[jeaniesa]

I would also like to know how you define "low-mid end" and "hi end". Are you referring to the price people charge? The amount of work they have? The quality of the work they do? The number of employees in the company? I don't know how to answer this - please clarify.

Thanks, Jeanie

[Ant]

Jeaniesa & Vikki,

I suppose I was referring to the end client when getting paid to do retouching or restoration work, and the amount or expertise needed to complete the job.

I myself worked as a retoucher for 2.5 years for Corbis, but doing lower end, less involved work. For example, I was responsible for taking raw drum scans and cropping, color correcting, cleaning up dust and scratches, and mild restoration of historical images and smaller file sizes (under 100 mb). The majority of the output of these images was via a Fujix printer or they were burned to cd, but rarely used larger than 11" x14" and not often used in a largely commercial way. As time went on, I came to do more higher end manipulations on larger files for commercial use, but it was still stock photos, with the exception of rights restricted celebrity images. I would also consider retouching and restoration for a consumer/retail market to be lower to mid-end type of work. (I don't mean for this work to be construed as low grade I've just only heard of fashion, advertising, etc. work where the end use may be an advertising campaign for Pantene or an editorial fashion story in say ID or German Vogue to be referred to as 'High end.) This is the sort of thing I do now, and it requires much more than what I previously did.

John, I hear you about digital. I'll be shooting digital this Friday, but I primarily still use film myself at this point. I figure that when they've finally stopped using drum scanners, the quality and output possiblity of the technology will be high enough that it will be economically feasible to invest in it whole hog. Oh, and I think the pizza is just getting better here.

[DannyRaphael]

A West Coast Welcome, Ant!

I retouch/restore as a hobby for friends, relatives. I've found this a great site for info/techniques that can be applied to many areas of interest.

Again, welcome aboard.
~DannyR~

[Ed_L]

Welcome aboard! It's just a hobby for me. I've been doing it for a while, but I'm not sure it would be worth my while (like Margaret) to try to make a living at it.

Ed

[sjcampbel]

Restorations - certainly an amateur compared to some of the works shown here. Have mostly done work for friends and family but this doesn't pay very well - family think everything is a "love job".

Photography - freelance work - mainly travel and landscapes in Australia. Gorge country around where I live, and I try to spend a few weeks in the deserts each year. My goal at the moment is to try and get a body of work for an exhibition of the New England area (of Australia). Hopefully this will pay for some of my digital "toys" as I am fully converting to digital.

I also have just started selling digitising services - I have a Canon 4000 35mm film scanner and a Epson 3200 flatbed scanner so I thought that rather than just sit there most of the time, they should "pay their way" . I'm aiming at the person who has granny's box of 120 negatives and wants do preserve them and possibly get a few enlargements.

My real job - Computer project manager (sigh) - keeps me away from my camera but does pay the bills.

[mcmike]

Hi all,

I have just changed jobs. In the past I worked primarily on image restoration, but now will work mostly on portrait retouching.

I am also new to RP and must say that this is a most impressive site.

[hizaam]

I'm a hobbyiest, avid filtermonkey, and amateur photographer (I have a canon G3 and I know where the shutter button is).

If I had good hand-mindseye coordination I might not need my plugins

[gyrgrls]

Originally posted by Ant
RE: Retouchers

Just trying to figure out who's who and what's what here at RP as I only found the site about an hour ago.

Where would you put yourself?

Is there really a difference between amateur and hobbyist?

[Vikki]

To me, an amateur is someone who is new to this, a hobbyist may have been doing this for years, but doesn't make a living or career out of it.
Someone could actually be both.

[gyrgrls]

Originally posted by Vikki
To me, an amateur is someone who is new to this, a hobbyist may have been doing this for years, but doesn't make a living or career out of it.
Someone could actually be both.

Hmmm,

I would tend to think:

Novice = 'new', or 'less experienced',

as opposed to:

Amateur = 'one who does [it] for enjoyment',
rather than specifically for gainful income.

A personal analogy:
I used to be a professional mechanic.
Now, I am just an amateur, because
I no longer work full time at it nor do
I make sunstantial income from either field
(my two main professional fields were
electronics
and major appliance repair).

Therefore, "Expert", as opposed to "Novice",
has little relative bearing on "amateur", as opposed
to "professional", in this context.
Many serious amateurs have little chance to
turn pro, because they are caught in their ruts
(the nine-to-five kinds).

A final analogy of this comparison is:
Take your car to a real expert, and get it fixed
[right] the first time. On the othe hand, take it
to a "pro", and it's likely to be done wrong.
Sadly, there is a lot of "professional incompetance"
out there - -
(no oxymoron is intended or implied here).
Furthermore, I am not implying that any backyard
mechanic is just as good as a certified professional.
You have to take the bitter with the sweet -- or,
in other words, you can't toss out the baby with
the bath water.

[Vikki]

Hmmmm.. "novice" I agree with.
Your analogy reminds me of photographers, but this is how I'm thinking...

I've been doing this for years, and only in the past few years have been doing it as a profession, yet I didn't consider myself an amateur, although I did consider it a hobby.

Speaking of mechanics, I needed both my front and back brakes done. I took it to the dealership for the front, and a friend who has his own business for the back. Both front and back were squealing like they never had been fixed. Now I have to go back to both places.

[winwintoo]

Hmmmm!!

Does it really matter.

When I first saw this survey, I assumed the author was asking what I consider myself to be - not what others think I am.

Margaret

[CourtneyConk.Co]

The esential difference can be summarized as follows; an amateur takes pictures, while a professional makes pictures.

[grafx]

I have no idea what to even call myself. I am a graphic designer first off (the "day-job"), but I have always done digital manipulation and retouch. Two years ago, I was asked to do a pageant retouch. Word spread, and now I do a whole bunch of pageant retouches, some regular retouches, digital art (putting people in fantasy settings), and now restorations. I don't know if I'm hi-end or low-end. I average about $35/hr.

[midnitejam]

I'm a once-upon-a-time photography enthusiast who cooled down after my children grew up. Grandchildren and the age of digital has rekindled my enthusiasm. In photo shop, I achieve in 20 minutes what once took an entire Saturday afternoon in my darkroom. I've recently purchased my second digital camera--moved up to an SLR Digital. Just can't describe the "feeling of accomplishment" derived from this hobby.

Good luck and happy shooting
MNJ

[Blues_X]

I'm an amateur, very much wanting to go pro.

I've had a just a bit of photographic experience (shot and developed b&w photos for junior-high school newspaper, and did a science fair project on photographic special effects). But since that time it's just been personal photos.

I've kept myself busy by posting entries in the photoshop contests at www.fark.com. They are much more irreverent and fun-oriented (as opposed to going for quality as with a serious restoration job) and I use many of the same techniques I would use on important work. I've become pretty good at head-swaps and matching skin tones. I think my enjoyment of this comes from seeing things like faked photos on the Weekly World News and Nat'l Enquirer covers.

I've reached a point in my photoshop skills that I cannot find any photoshop or digital imaging courses/programs around here where I do not already know over half the course content. I checked into a 4000 level Photoshop course in our Fine Arts college, and the instructor told me that I knew more about this than she did. I looked into a digital imaging program at the Oklahoma School of Photography, and it looked like I've already covered 95% of the course topics on my own.

So I'm just trying to find out what steps I need to take to increase my skills and confidence so I can try to make a living at this.



Lance

[midnitejam]

Originally Posted by Blues_X

I'm an amateur, very much wanting to go pro.

it looked like I've already covered 95% of the course topics on my own.

So I'm just trying to find out what steps I need to take to increase my skills and confidence so I can try to make a living at this.

Lance

Blues_X,
The Course Titles may seem to be similar, but there are so may different methods to arrive at the same result in PhotoShop, that I garuantee you will find different approaches and techinques enlightening.

I usually apply seveal different techniques to the same project just to compare the end results. Rarely do two different approaches to accomplish the same goal render the same result

If it's certification you're after, take the courses. If it's your horizons that you wish to broaden, take the courses (all of them). If you have a deeper well of resources and techniques to choose from, you'll be able to mix-and-match to achieve a finer degree of finesse.

Good luck.
MNJ

[DavidC]

I'm new to this forum and an amateur (I don't make money from what I do - wish I could...). I am not sure exactly what I do is called, but this is what it looks like...
www.davidcolepictures.co.uk

David

[tom ingrassia]

Part time professional photographer who shoots digitally and uses photoshop CS for retouching

[FrannyMae]

I am a self-taught Photoshop hack! My brother introduced me to the power of PS a couple of years ago, and I recently decided to get serious learning the program. This site has been a wonderful way to learn and share with some exceptional people!

"Photoshopping" is a wonderful creative outlet for me. My day job is as far away from the arts as you can get...I'm a 9-1-1 operator/dispatcher for a municipal police department. Even the term "day job" is a misnomer, as I work the midnight shift.

There may come a time when I consider myself something other than a hobbyist, but in the meantime I am having a wonderful time learning!

[mdavis]

Both amateur photo enthusiast and professional. I am a forensic chemist working in a crime lab with a specialty in latent fingerprints, shoeprints, tire tracks, check forgeries and such.

My work related photography prevents ANY so-called retouching because evidence cannot be "manipulated" other than to "enhance" (the usual contrast, brightness, etc. available in a wet darkroom). In addition, I do some extreme enhancement work in eliminating distracting colors or background patterns to better visualize some of the images.

SO, I love to get home and switch to my hobby hat so I can do whatever I like with my photos.