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I'd like your input on this

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  #11  
Old 01-27-2004, 01:26 PM
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DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
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No Ron, I didn't read you wrong. My statement meant that even though you, Ed, CJ and Greg held different points of views on the subject, you all had some interesting comments that gave me pause in what I originally thought should be a no brainer. I was for legalizing too and still am for the same reasons but I was thinking in simplified terms when you all showed me this was not a simplified problem at all. Like, do we legalize across the board or do we speicify? Do we just discriminalize? And what of the prescription drugs? Or the point Greg made in stating "how do we tax it? I really never gave alot of these points consideration above my feeling that legalization would take it out of the black market and bring down the high cost of law enforcement which is so inadequate in this fight. Even more so now when we are so desperately trying to fight terrorism. But would legalization really do this? I still say it's a tough question and even tougher answer. Lots and Lots of details to be worked out first, I think.

Ed, nice to be back too.
DJ
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2004, 01:37 PM
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G. Couch G. Couch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rondon
That was the whole point of the tax idea... make drugs so cheap that there is no criminal activity.. it would cost more to sell illegally..

except for a few places where I guess they make moonshine for a local market .. people don't buy alcohol on the black market... or smokes either..

There are plenty of people who sell alcohol and cigarettes illegally to kids...but I see your point as far as making it more cost effective to stay legal.

Ed - You are probably right that it's time to try something different. We certainly don't seem to be winning the "War" on drugs...and it seems like young people are bombarded with a contradictory message. On the one hand they are told that drugs are bad and should be avoided at all costs...on the other hand, their parents are probably consuming Prozac, Viagra, and a host of other drugs at an alarming rate. It's ok to take a pill for any and every problem but smoking a little pot is some sort of horrible sin?

By the way, anyone else stuck indoors due to ice storms? ...I'm going stir crazy!
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2004, 02:04 PM
rondon rondon is offline
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Ok ... didn't mean to ruffle your feathers DJ

you are right about it not being simple.... although I think the tax issue is.
most drugs could be produced very cheaply... barring any patents.
cheaply enough to tax most and still sell them for a fraction of black market costs.
keeping in mind the sliding tax/damage scale the most destructive drugs would not be taxed to fully cover themselves.... to keep the cost too low for the pushers.
pro/con is that the addict wouldn't have to rob for his habit... but the lower price may entice others...
with the new found trust the drug culture might have in the program the money spent educating the public may save the day there.

also with the police and penal system's lightened load any persistent drug dealers would find themselves the center of attention.

an odd thing I've noticed over the years is that every election year talk in the papers turns toward legalization of some sort.. then fades away...

what about that drug war in central America: Imagine the cocoa farmers raising their crops legal ?

for any that don't know they have used cocoa leaves for centuries there.. they chew them for energy.. endurance etc.

I've never tried cocaine but I'd like to try chewing the cocoa leaves ... provided there are no health risks.
RonDon
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2004, 02:12 PM
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DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
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No ruffling involve Ron. Just my lack of comunication skills.

I know what you mean about the issue being brought up during election years. I think they try to test the waters of popular opionion and if even a small gripe is heard they back off imediately for political reasons. Drugs affect so many people that there are very strong views on it and politicians hate those issues. It's comical watching them tip toe around Roe v Wade or gay marriages. I have a feeling it will be some time yet before they finally take a stand and do something about it.
DJ
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2004, 03:22 PM
Mike Mike is offline
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DJ, waiting for a politician to take a stand and do something has to be something like watching the sun run out of energy and go dark

Making a whole lot of things legal, and taxing them to keep them in order is most likely in order for a number of activities. We already do it for some things, booze and smoking come to mind. But why not for drugs and prostitution? (I added prostitution because I saw a rerun of a Cops TV show where they picked up a woman street walker for the 56th time for the same thing. One could write whole pages about that. )

Gambling, at least for here, has become the Native Americans way to a decent lifestyle. The rest of us should just stay out of that.

Lots of details to work out, lots of folks to convince that it is a good idea, but I think that we could do it in the long run.

Mike
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2004, 06:00 PM
rondon rondon is offline
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Whoops!

I said

people don't buy alcohol on the black market... or smokes either..

tonight on ABC news they showed a shipload of foreign counterfeit ciggerettes that was intercepted... Marlboro's I was looking at.

I stand corrected
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2004, 09:06 PM
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G. Couch G. Couch is offline
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That's the first I have heard of that! My guess is that the black market for cigarettes is a pretty new thing (could be wrong though). I suppose that's the downside to taxing something at such high rates...It's almost like making them illegal drugs! Banning them from public places is one thing, but if people want to smoke themselves to an early grave, why stop them? ...Not that most smokers even like smoking, most are just addicts to the chemicals inside and have very little control. Which brings up another thought...

When our society talks about illegal drug use, or abuse of legal drugs, we generally put it in terms of a social or political problem. The solutions always seem to be to plug lots more money into law enforcement, a bit into treatment and another bit into prevention...and none of that spending ever seems to yield substantial results. Even when we talk about legalizing drugs, we mention being able to spend the saved money on treatment centers...aren't we just patching wounds and not getting to the source of the problem? Why don't we start looking at this as a scientific problem? Think about it...the alcoholic, the drug abuser, the smoker, etc... are all addicts. If you can learn to shut off that genetic trait, that would go much further to solving the problem than spending more money on treatment centers or police. Of course, now we start to get into the realm of genetic engineering...and I am rambling on and on!
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2004, 10:12 AM
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Ed_L Ed_L is offline
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Wow, Greg! You really put a new slant on this! The fact is, that when people come up with things out of the norm, we might find all kinds of alternate solutions to different problems. I guess that's what is called "thinking outside the box". Too bad we don't have a lot of others with input. We might actually find something that would work, without having one group against another (except for the ones who profit from the business).

Ed
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  #19  
Old 03-21-2006, 02:41 AM
pjanak pjanak is offline
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I don't know about all drugs. But weed should be. On weed alone the tax revenue is in tens of billions. The laws against weed should be repealed since they were made based on intentionally wrong information about weed to start with. IOW basd on lies. And because weed is only a minute step worse than alcohol in terms of how you act when you are high.
Pete Janak
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