RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Tools > Software
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Software Photoshop, Lightroom, Paintshop Pro, Painter, etc., and all their various plugins. Of course, you can also discuss all other programs, as well.

Help w/ Neat Image

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-20-2005, 06:24 PM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Help w/ Neat Image

I've read the user guide... But, I'm a creative person that's technically challenged, so I'm having a bit of a time understanding the various adjustments in NI. First of all, I'm not sure what Noise Levels are and when I'd need to adjust them as opposed the Level Reduction Amounts??? The website has several before and after examples, but I'd find it helpful if they provided info on what types of noise they are and what adjustments were made to fix them. That way I could look at my images and this/that needs adjusted. If I can't recogzie the problem then I won't know how to fix it...

What profile method do you use w/ NI? Profile current image? Download a pre-made camera profile? Or create your own camera profile w/ the Calibration Target?

Thanks in advance...
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 07-20-2005, 09:54 PM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: somewhere over there
Posts: 8,786
Blog Entries: 4
hi inskip,

neat image is actually fairly easy to use, at least the basics. there's really only about 4 or 5 steps to the entire process, load the image, profile, preview/adjust, view final, save. sounds like you're getting hung on the 3rd step, the profile stuff.

basically, that little blue box that comes up IS the profile. it's sampling the noise levels where there is little image detail so that it's not sampling the image detail and getting that confused with the noise that you want to get rid of.

let me just run you through the basic steps. might be easier.

1. load the image. seems you've got that part ok.

2. click on 'device noise profile' and another little tab comes up that says 'auto profile'. click on that. NI will then bring up a blue box, usually in an area without a lot of image detail. if it is in an area with a lot of image detail, move it to an area without so much, and particularly if you can move it to an area with high noise. if you do move it, i forget if you have to hit the 'auto profile' again or not, but you shld be able to tell.

3. that profile is now stored in memory. so, you move to the tab which says 'noise filter settings'. before you change any settings, up in the left top there is another push bar that says 'preview'. click it. that shld bring up a box if it's not already there, near the center of the image and give you a preview of what your final image is going to look like. just move the box around to see any part of the image and its finished look.

forget about all that 'load profile from disk/save profile to disk' stuff for now. just get the basic workflow of the thing and play with the settings on the interface over on the right side and keep previewing the image to see how it affects things. once you've got a look you can live with, go to the next tab, the 'output image'.

4. once in the 'output image' window, hit the 'apply' bar. this will render the profile across the entire image and change the image to a final view of things. you can either save now, or go back in the tabs and change things more.

and that's basically it. just play with that much of it and you can do nice things. once you've got the basics of it down, then you play with some of the fine tuning and loading to and from disk and all that.

neat image is one of those indispensable programs that shld be in every retoucher/restorer's arsenal. it can be a huge time saver and is well worth the learning.

Craig
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 07-21-2005, 11:45 AM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Thanks for the reply Craig. Actually, I get how to profile an image and apply the filter. Where I'm confused is in between, tweeking the settings, to get optimal results. Sure, I can just trial and error it until I get acceptable results, but I'd like to know the function of the various settings. Yes, I read the user guide and the info online, but my think skull is still not unclear as to when I'd perfom the various adjustments. I'm a visual learner, so examples, like pictures with the various types of noise and the settings used to fix them would be helpful as a guideline, unfortunately NI doesn't have this available. I guess the bottom line is, I don't fully understand how to analyze my photo and say it has this or that kind of noise and I need to tweek Noise Levels this way and the Cr and Y in Noise Reduction Amount box that way. Does that make sense? BTW I'm using a Mac so it might be a little different...

Thanks again
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 07-22-2005, 12:28 AM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Neat Image discussion

The next couple of posts are transfered over from a discussion Craig and I were having about NI. We want to make sure we know what we're doing...

Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 07-22-2005, 12:33 AM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Neat Image

yup. i understand. in all honesty, i dont go by the numbers much, as i dont really truly understand them all myself. you might want to switch to RGB mode in NI. the numbers might make more sense to you that way.

you've got 2 categories for settings, noise levels and noise reduction amounts. you've got 3 categories within those 2 categories. they are high, mid, and low. in the top settings, this is existing noise in the 3 ranges. if you look at the little black box next to each range you can sort of see what each range means. also, if you hold your cursor over each part of those ranges it will tell you what each does. the profile is just a sample of one area of your image, but may not be the best overall for the image. the ranges allow you to tweak to adjust what you think the true settings shld be relative to the profile.

the 2nd set is how much you want to raise or lower in that range of noise.

and, if you switch to RGB mode, that may make more sense to you too.

Craig
Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 07-22-2005, 12:35 AM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Question Neat Image discussion

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. I'm using the Mac version, and for some reason it does not have the little black boxes you mentioned. However, I did look up the Windows version and these are the kind of visuals I need to help me understand, thanks. Now I can see thqat High, Mid and Low have to do w/ the SIZE of the noise.

As far as Noise Levels goes, this is the AMOUNT of noise the image contains based on the profile. If I don't agree w/ the amounts, for instance, I think there's more noise, this is where I'd tweek, correct?
But if the profile is taken accurately, I shouldn't have to tweek these.

The Noise Level Amounts is where I adjust how much filtration is applied.

Y is luminance noise. Is that white noise?
Cr is red noise, like if I see red spots in my image
Cb is blue noise, as in blue specks
???

Am I getting it now?

Thank again..
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 07-22-2005, 12:58 AM
Gary Richardson's Avatar
Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 2,717
Hi Inskip,

The trouble is, NI rarely does a pan image correction that is acceptable.

What I usually do is apply NI to a flattened copy of the image I'm working on, then paste that copy as a layer on my working image. Then I can mask out the effect where I don't want it.

This way you can have several Noise reduction layers with different settings, masked to effect different areas of your image.

Sounds a bit involved I know, but doesn't really take too much effort once you've got the idea.

I believe Flora wrote a tutorial (it may just be an article in one of her posts) on this subject.
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 07-22-2005, 01:55 AM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
What is pan image correction?

Do you just use the defaults settings for your layer mask? Good tip, i'll remeber to try that. But where I'm still unclear is knowing when to tweek the various settings like Noise Levels and Cr and Cb???
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 07-22-2005, 06:10 PM
inskip inskip is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 84
Noisy Picture

Here's a crop of one of my noisy pictures due to the fact that I can't seem to remember to change my ISO. The TIFF version is WAY noisier. There's a wall behind her that I would use to profile the image. Adjusting the settings for optimal results is where I get stuck. Do you guys just use the defaults? How do you know when to adjust Noise Levels or Y, Cr, Cb, R, G, or B? What kind of noise do you think I have here? maybe then I could understand what adjustments I will need to make...thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _MG_0614 copy.jpg (93.0 KB, 12 views)
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 07-22-2005, 06:59 PM
Gary Richardson's Avatar
Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 2,717
Hi Inskip,

In this image, the worst noise appears in the blue background area (other BG areas almost as noisy).

What I'd do here, is Click on "Device Noise Profile", click on "Auto Profile" and in the drop down menu, select "Auto profile with regular image". Then drag the square selection marker onto the blue area. Don't adjust any of the settings on this page.

Now click on the "Noise Filter Settings". Click on "Preview", and move the preview square over the blue area. You can now adjust "Noise Reduction Amounts" for Luminance and Chrominance to get best results (I almost never touch any other adjustments), I do it by eye.

If you now move the preview square over the girls face, you will probably find it has blurred too much.

Two options now, either lower the settings in the "Noise Reduction Amounts" to get better definition in detail areas, and save image, or as I said in my earlier post, copy and paste it as a layer, and mask out the areas you don't want blurring.

Finally, click on the "Output Image" tab, and click the "Apply" button.

This is the image you would copy/paste to your image if you were going to mask, or it's your final image. (Depending on choice made above).

Repeat, using different areas as your selection area, and varying "Noise Reduction Amounts" appropriately.

Hope this helps.

Gary.
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Tools > Software


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tutorial 05: Converting a Color Image to Black and White grayscale BW DannyRaphael Photo-Art 101 17 05-22-2011 05:55 PM
Restoration jrharvey_222 Photo Restoration 8 08-27-2005 08:02 PM
Image From Parts of Multiple Images Cameronch Photoshop Scripting 3 08-02-2005 03:11 AM
TRY-IT: Apply Image command DannyRaphael Photo-Art Resources 1 01-21-2004 10:59 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved