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Service Pack II help??

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  #11  
Old 01-07-2006, 09:53 AM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Quote:
YES!!! it worked!!! i've got my system information back!!! and my other system tools are working again and though i havent tried it yet, i'll bet my lan networking is working again too!!! amazing!!! i've been trying (sort of, now and again, well, a bit....ok, i went into apathy on this a long time ago and quit trying ) to get this thing fixed for over a year!!! not even a call to microsoft support could fix this thing!!! i didnt even have to reboot the system after the fix!!! freaking hallelujah!!!

that was amazing! i ran the .bat file and it took a LONG time to run. understand that my registry is BIG! the subsequent log files are BIG also but immediately upon completion i had my broken windows stuff working again! now, THAT'S service! this thing was all about broken permissions and NOBODY could seem to fix it. it may well be why my installation of service pack 2 was running so horribly slow as well. i'll have to try that again now and see.
ok, that's a quote from this thread: http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=10 . this has been plaguing me since about november of 2004 and nobody could fix it! windows still basically worked and in reality very few CRITICAL things were messed up, but nonetheless it has bugged me ever since. it wasnt worth re-formatting or re-installing windows, and it wasnt interfering with other software installations or executions, but in trying to get service pack 2 to install and run, it may very well have had a HUGE impact. that's yet to be seen.

but every trick i've tried to get sp2 to install and work has come up the same way, my machine bogs to a crawl and i've had to disable the whole thing by using a restore point. and just as a side note here, i'd NEVER used any restore points before. it worked flawlessly. so, that's just a side benefit.

so, the only question now is, will sp2 now work without bringing my system to its knees. i'll be trying again today and let you know.

craig
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2006, 10:43 AM
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briarrose briarrose is offline
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Good luck with that, Craig! Sounds like you're a bit like me...I might fix other people's computers for a living...but when it comes to my own--I'm willing to put up with all sorts of bad behavior, rather than "waste" a Saturday trying to fix it. Oh, I'll do a BIT of poking around...but if I'm having a problem I can't fix--it's going to be something REALLY obscure...and I'd rather just live with it, than bother over much. Only the problems begin adding up...and one day I realize that I've got quite a few things that I should address--and I'd just never realized, because as each new behavior surfaces, I'd just adjust to it, and move on--forgetting about all the adjustments I'd ALREADY made! A bit daft...but hey, it works for me!

(And glad you checked out Kelly's Korner! While most of her stuff can be found elsewhere on the web--I LOVE that she's written registry snippets that you can just download and run, instead of having to manually edit the registry yourself...and she's inspired me to write out my own, as well, for anything I do on more than one PC. I've got a whole folder full of "new PC" fixes that I run, like disabling balloon tips...and quite a few are things I just downloaded from her...)
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2006, 10:50 AM
Bryan L Bryan L is offline
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In my shop we install SP2 around 4-10 times per day! We never have problems as we are generally doing it on a clean install. SP2 was a problem back in the early days when it first came out and there were driver problems. I have close to 1000 computer customers and we really never have SP2 problems.

(Side Note: To install over the top of XP as a repair....all programs and drivers still intact... don't press the 'R' for repair on the first screen. That takes you to the console which isn't what you want. You have to continue to the next screen just like you are going to install windows fresh; "ENTER" I think. Then when you see the screen that shows you your current installations you hit 'R' there and that will do an install over the top. Not like the Win 98 install over the top though. The XP version makes it so that everything still works, programs etc. This often works great if you get the imfamous STOP error on bootup. A lot of shops and techs will tell you that you need to do a full reinstall at this point and this isn't always the case.)

I know it stinks to have to format and install windows again but this is often a good choice. I refer to it as "cutting off a head to fix a headache". Its often during the reinstalls that you find out if its software or hardware based. If windows won't reinstall, etc, then its often a hardware problem (not refering to Kraelin's problem, just saying 'in general'.)

I started a practice for myself a while back that took a little time but I have loved it! Back along I did a format and reinstall. Did all the updates, installed all my programs and got everything just the way that I wanted. Then I cloned my harddrive to a second drive and stored the second drive away.

Now, whenever I want to have a 'clean start' I backup all my favorites, email, etc. I keep "My Documents" on a second harddrive anyhow. I swap out the shelved drive and I'm up and running on a new drive in minutes. I do all the updates (safe to assume that if that drive has been on the shelf for more than 3 weeks then there are more windows xp updates). If I have added any new programs to the arsenal since the last close I install them. Then I wipe out the harddrive I'm replacing, reclone it, and start the whole process over.

I know its rather off topic but it really works well for the investment. Harddrives are very inexpensive these days and are not hard to install for the non-geekish. The cloning process is easy. You would need a $20 OEM copy of Norton Ghost.

Sorry for the rather off topic discussion, but I thought someone might find it helpful.

-B
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2006, 10:55 AM
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CJ Swartz CJ Swartz is offline
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Craig, if we had a "fingers crossed" emoticon on here, I'd put a few of those up for you, but I'll just hope that your latest try works.

Craig, Briar, Gary, Ken, Murray, and Bryan -- your discussion and your links will help others who might never post a question -- THANKS for your willingness to share your knowledge. You are part of what makes the internet such a powerful and important addition to Civilization!
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  #15  
Old 01-07-2006, 12:07 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Sounds like you're a bit like me...I might fix other people's computers for a living...but when it comes to my own--I'm willing to put up with all sorts of bad behavior, rather than "waste" a Saturday trying to fix it.
briar,
i am EXACTLY like that and with more than just my computer i used to run a home repair business and could just about ANYTHING that could break in a house, including all the various systems in a house. but, my own house was 'yeah, one of these days' the thing is, when you do work for someone else, you get rewarded. when you do it for yourself, you do still get rewarded by a job well done, but it's not the same as a 'thank you! and a monetary compensation.

bryan,
no, that wasnt off-topic at all. i've been trying ever since i got xp to confirm that one could install over the top as a fix! some folks thought maybe, some thought not, but nobody seemed to really be able to confirm it solidly. so, thank you for that!

now, one other question for you, bryan, i have an oem machine, but all that came with was a restore cd. all that does is wipe EVERYTHING on the drives and re-install the oem. that is NOT what i want. so, a while back i went out and bought the retail version. what i'd like to know is, is it possible to do that over-the-top fix of an oem version with the full retail version? and, if it is possible, would you then be required to re-authenticate with microsoft being that you'd likely have to use the cd key to get this to work? seems like it, but i'd like to know this sort of thing before i go playing around and break something.

cj,

thank you very much for the fingers crossed! and, you're welcome. a person is only as valuable as his ability to help others. so, i hope i'm always valuable

craig
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2006, 02:43 PM
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briarrose briarrose is offline
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Thanks for making me laugh, Craig! The shoemaker's children always go barefoot, right?! (I'm always so glad to hear that I'm not the only one with these bad habits! )

CJ--thanks! We all stand on the shoulders of giants, don't we...and there's nothing like sharing what we've learned. That would be why I teach, in addition to my "day" job! (Well, that, and the fact that I can't help myself. )
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  #17  
Old 01-07-2006, 03:23 PM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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I'm pretty sure you can't do a repair using a Windows CD on an OEM installation.

Just reading a little on Registry today, and a paragraph I was reading on repairing corrupted registry using Windows Recovery Console struck me as relevant to your situation.

Quote:
Do not use the procedure described here if your computer has an OEM installed operating system. The system hive on OEM installations creates passwords and user accounts that did not exist previously. If you use this procedure to repair, you may not be able to log back into Windows Recovery Console to restore the original registry hives
Seems likely that there are keys, permissions and passwords installed along with an OEM installation that would make it incompatible with an original Windows install.

Gosh CJ I'm blushing, thanks for the kind remarks.
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  #18  
Old 01-07-2006, 04:57 PM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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hot damn and little fishes! she works! sp2 is installed and so far, NOT bogging down! i havent tried much yet, but i could tell almost instantly the difference. in addition to Ro's linked fix, i did a number of other things to prepare for the install. i have this wonderful little application called 'API Monitor' (ver 1.5). i dont use this app very often, but there are times, like this one, where it is invaluable. what it does is monitor and log ALL API calls! basically, what that means is that any process that is running in the background or any calls to harddrives (and probably a few other things i'm not aware of), get monitored and logged to a file. on running this thing, i became aware of quite a few calls being made and a number of them were failing consistently. that meant a lot of api calls and a lot of failed api calls.

so, i called up my startup routine and killed these things in the startup routine, rebooted and checked the api monitor again. when i had things trimmed down to just about only explorer making its normal calls, i rebooted one last time and killed one item in my systray that could possibly interfere with things (not all things in your systray are necessarily called with the msconfig startup).

after fixing the windows registry earlier, i had already backed up the new registry and set a restore point.

so, with a barebones systray and startup, i let microsoft do its thing. because of earlier restore points uses i had to install the updates installer yet again. another reboot.

now, i already had all the sp2 files on my drive (restore points dont wipe those out), and updates confirmed this. so, all that was needed was for the install cycle to take place. it went smoothly, albeit a bit slowly (i suspect the microsoft servers are a bit slow with all the new auto updates going on).

rebooted again and the new automatic update window comes up. since i NEVER allow ANY automatic updates from ANYONE, i turned this off and the rest of the boot cycle took place. the next scare came when the new security control panel came up. i was a bit worried that the new windows firewall would conflict with mine. but, it turned off just fine (their's, not mine). it also saw my anti-virus. AND, my network connection showed up in the systray this time!

so, all that's left is to turn things back on, kill the near worthless microsoft control panel in startup and test a few more things! but, like i said earlier, things are running more like they shld now... so far

thanks to Ro for finding and posting that link! and to gary for his long standing help and willingness to help and to everyone else for bearing with me!

two miracles in as many days! i may have to lay down for a while

craig
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2006, 05:25 PM
Bryan L Bryan L is offline
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The OEM and the Retail Version as far as the code is concerned are exactly the same. Its the License Key on the COA (Certificate of Authenticity) that tells whether its OEM or Retail. (Microsoft has actually changed it even more for us System Builders so that the key is colored and shaped different).

Now, as far as installing over the top. I MSN'ed one of my techs at the shop to make sure of the order. It is on the screen that I was thinking it was and the selection reads "To repair the selected Windows XP installation, press R" HOWEVER, he said that sometimes this selection does not show and did not know the reason.

IF IT DOES SHOW. It will look just like it is installing for the first time. I'm almost positive that it asks you for the CD KEY. This should work as its looking at the disk to confirm the CD KEY (I could be wrong though, I dont' work with Retail keys that often).

ACTIVATION. You may need to activate you installation again at startup. Not a problem at all. If you do need to activate then it should activate without a hitch if you have never activated that key before. If it doesn't and you need to call, don't sweat it. Just go through the phone stuff, it won't activate and they will transfer you to a operator. He will ask you questions. Assuming that your copy is legit (and you don't have it installed on 3 computers in your house and all the neighbors), just answer the questions honestly and they will read you numbers to put into the 'boxes'.

Like I said though, I don't deal with retail CDs very often. I would hope that it should work though. There is no coded difference between the two versions. If one was to look at a OEM install and a Retail install you could not tell the difference.

Good Luck!


Additional Useless Knowledge- OEM vs RETAIL.

(Note: Any information regarding licensing with Microsoft will usually change depending on who you talk to, what day of the week it is, the fullness of the moon, and the direction of the wind...multiplied by 2 and divided by 4.)

OEM software gets no support from Microsoft. Traditionally OEM operating systems have had to be purchased with hardware (namely a motherboard). OEM software from Microsoft has always come in 3 packs. They are a nice little box that basically says on the outside "Mr. System Builder open this box and you support the software inside". Last fall MS made it so you can buy OEM in single packs. Also they lifted the "have to buy with hardware" restriction. However, if someone walks into my store and wants to buy an OEM Microsoft I have to sell it to them in the original single pack envelope that says the "Mr. System Builder" statement. OEM software can only be installed on ONE machine EVER. According to MS rules (at the last System Builder Workshop I attended) if you upgrade your motherboard then you have to BUY a NEW Windows XP (nuts I know). If you have to replace a dead motherboad you are ok.

RETAIL software gets full MS support. It can be installed on ONE machine at at time. So, if you build a machine and you decide to replace the other one you can format the other drive and use the retail OS on the new machine. You also don't have to be a lawyer to understand the retail software.
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  #20  
Old 01-08-2006, 12:24 AM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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bryan,

thank you! that's good to know.

the problem is resolved for the time being. i've got sp2 installed. and with sp2 installed i was then able to install my new video card and drivers. they required sp2 i was also able to install photoshop elements 4 and got it up and running as well! all that's left now is photoshop premiere elements and the point of all this will be satisfied

not sure i like this trend in hardware and software, though. first .net being required by a lot of new software and now sp2 being required as well. that must be leaving a very LARGE community out there in the rain without any hope. cant say as that pleases me very much. and being just a tiny bit paranoid, not sure i like it for that reason either.

and briar,

Quote:
The shoemaker's children always go barefoot, right?!
yes, but they have tougher feet for it (whatever that means )

craig
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