Painter vs. Photoshop

[RL Design]

I want to know what the differance and/or advantage is of Painter vs. Photoshop for digital art/paintings?

I have worked exclusivly with Photoshop and have not tried Painter. I want to be able to make more "painted" photographs and refine my skills. I have seen many photos on this site which state the color changes where done in Photoshop but the painting with Painter. Would the Painter users out thier give me thier opinion of the two programs and benefits of Painter?

I can honestly say that it feels like I am experimenting with Photoshop everytime someone asks for the painted look. I can't seem to find a technique or filter that I am happy with. I have tried Photoshop WOW which has some brushes and samples options for making painted images, but they are time consuming and I have not been thirlled with the results. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I am attaching a photo of my daugher, please feel free to show a sample of your technique with this image. I have also attached a quick "painted", soft look that I did in Photoshop.

This image and all alterations are copyrighted by Robin Ludwig.

[byRo]

Robin, as soon as I saw the title I was already responding.....

Each program is remarkable in it's own area. Photoshop, as you very well know (congratulations on the contest win, again), is perfect for all sorts of image adjustments. You can go on forever learning new tools and new methods for working images.

However, when it comes to Artistic Painting then the tool to use is Painter. With Photoshop you can mimmick real painting, in Painter you actually do real painting. The Painter folks have worked really hard and have been wonderfully successful in transfering to the digital screen the whole painting experience - but without getting you fingers dirty.

On the other hand, although Painter has quite a range of tools for image adjustment they just can not compare with the Photoshop tools that have been fine tuned at each edition.

This means that the favoured workflow for those who want to Paint is:
1) Photshop to adjust the base image;
2) Painter, for the brush strokes;
3) Photoshop, for the final adjustments.

To sum it up, Painter is great if you have some idea of how to paint or, at least, are prepared (and have the patience) to learn some new skills.

Rô

[RL Design]

Thanks Ro... It sounds like I need to take a serious look at Painter if I want to expand these skills. Photoshop has been very fusterating for me in this area, I "know" what I want the image to look like but have an impossible time creating it.

[DannyRaphael]

Pics worth 1K words...

http://www.pbase.com/judy2810/

IMO you can't touch this type of result in Photoshop with filters, plugins and/or brush settings. While you might not totally like Judy's unique style, these examples illustrate Painter's strength: As Ro wrote, Painter enables one to digitally mimic realistic looking paint strokes.

While exceptional results can be achieved if one has traditional drawing/painting skills, very good results can still be achieved by using a combination of freeform strokes and strokes rendered using Painter's cloning capabilities.

Here's some discussion on Painter cloning that might help connect a few dots...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...hread=16736745

re: "I have tried Photoshop WOW ... but [the methods] are time consuming"

Don't expect a huge increase in workflow efficiency when Painter enters the picture. Using it can be time consuming, too.

~Danny~

[Nanls]

I agree. You basically "prep" the image in PS; color correct, retouch, etc, to take it into painter. Then the fun begins. I always end up back in PS, do do final color adjustments, details to eyes, hair, sharpening etc.
You have a lovely daughter.

~Nancy~
just playing around - one more photo art oil texture background.
____________________________

http://www.fixthepixs.com
http://www.datepixs.com

[DannyRaphael]

Workflow...
* Photoshop: Contrast adjustments, isolate subject, build BG, prep with KPT Pyramid Painter, PS Dry Brush, Impressionist
* Painter for stroke effects, blending
* Photoshop: Fine tuning

[Nanls]

Nice image Danny. I love KPT Pyraimid Paint; use it mainly for watercolors.
The more I use painter the more I realize how much more I have to learn!

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Nanls

Nice image Danny. I love KPT Pyraimid Paint; use it mainly for watercolors.
The more I use painter the more I realize how much more I have to learn!

Thanks, Nancy. I know what you mean about Painter. I'm just barely scratching the surface of its capabilities.

Too much to learn, too little time!

[Bob Mc]

If that KPT thing a 3rd party filter that is already in PS7 or PSCS2?... or did you buy it

Regards,

Bob

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Bob Mc

If that KPT thing a 3rd party filter that is already in PS7 or PSCS2?... or did you buy it

Regards,

Bob

Hi Bob and thanks for the kind words.

A set of KPT plugins, including Pyramid Painter, is intalled along with Painter IX. (I ported this plugin to Photoshop.) I don't know offhand if it's available separately.

The effect Pyramid Painter renders is somewhere between Photoshop's Dry Brush filter and the free Xero > Caravaggio plugin, available here: http://www.xero-graphics.co.uk/

~Danny~

[bart_hickman]

Painter is the no-compromise everything-but-the-kitchen sink version of art-media capability. I don't know how serious you want to get, but you might also download and try the following because they're all sub $100.

Corel Painter Essentials: I think it's sort of a simplified version of Painter. I tried it for 30 days and, for my amateurish fiddling around, couldn't find anything that isn't already in Paintshop (see next item.)

Paintshop Pro X: Has a pretty full complement of art media stroke and blending effects. Nice thing here is you get this nicely integrated with all of the familiar photoshop-like photo-retouching tools--ie, art media layers can be masked/blended/filtered/etc along with raster and vector layers.

Art Rage: This is a free-download art-media simulator. Very similar to the features in Paintshop Pro, except of course there's none of the layering/photo-retouching capability. My kids love this one because it has a very basic UI.

Bart

[Nanls]

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

(I ported this plugin to Photoshop.)~Danny~

I didn't know you could do that! do you just drop it on the plugin folder?
Thanks

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Nanls

I didn't know you could do that! do you just drop it on the plugin folder?
Thanks

Making a copy of \KPT collection and putting it into your equivalent of C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop 7.0\Plug-Ins is one approach.

Another is to make a Windows' shortcut for \KPT collection and put the shortcut in C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop 7.0\Plug-Ins.

A third possibility (and what I did) is to create a separate folder for 3rd party plugins, e.g., \My Plugins, and install all plugins there. Then use Photoshop's preference setting to point PS to this "additional plugins folder." Can't do that in Painter (yet), but putting plugin folder shortcuts inside Painter's plugin folder works just fine.

The benefit of the \My plugins approach is the ability to share plugins across applications and never having to reinstall plugins ... Just update the PS preferences entry and/or the folder shortcuts.

[Nanls]

The benefit of the \My plugins approach is the ability to share plugins across applications and never having to reinstall plugins ... Just update the PS preferences entry and/or the folder shortcuts.

Thanks Danny, just dumped them in my photoshop plugins folder, usually this doesn't work (well at least not for the commercial plugins) unless I use the install program, but no problem for the KPT filter.... Thanks a bunch!
~Nancy~

[RL Design]

I started this thread and just wanted to let everyone know that I have purchased Painter 9. Thanks to everyone for all of thier input and look for my future threads asking for advice on using the new software!

[jiggles]

I just got a great deal on the 6x11 intuios3 with airbrush etc. and i am a CS2 pro, but I am reading a lot about natural painting and corel's name keeps coming up. I have not used corel since the days when IBM was considering buying the company...but my question is this: Why AND and not VS., specifically? Is there anything I can't learn to do in CS2 that can be done in painter? If so, I am game for trying. I loaded the Essentials2 that came with the tablet and was not impressed. I see there is an Essentials3 out there and tried to find out more but the Corel website is just a mess. Hmmm..any more thoughts on this? I want to get the most out of the tablet and start to learn how to paint digitally for anime, so not real keen on going outside of Adobe Suite (preservation of layers/import/export and all of that). Thanks for your input!

[WayDen]

I'm not sure if I agree with what some people are saying about not being able to create digital paintings within Photoshop. I'm a 3D animator, and I frequent sites like CG Talk quite a bit. Almost all of the 2D paintings there are done in Photoshop, and they are fantastic and beautiful.

Here are two of my (many) favorites that I've checked out while browsing the forums there (I didn't do these, they were done by others). Both were painted completely within Photoshop - one is a photorealistic painting of a cat, the other is a cartoony version of a dog. And no, the cat painting isn't a photo!!

Cat: http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cathb2.jpg

Dog: http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6344/dogly6.jpg

And here's a link to the 2D forums if you want to see more of their work.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=137

Now, I haven't used Painter before, and I'm sure you can create some really great work within that program. But the people at CGTalk have more than proven to me that Photoshop can hold it's own in the realm of digital painting.

[jiggles]

thanks for that. I guess I should just start with some tutorials in CS2 then for natural painting, and if i run into a snap, give corel a whirl. i want to animate my 2d cartoon that's in newsprint for a short anime, and i already know photoshop very well after 2 years of cartooning there. now that i have a tablet i am looking forward to an easier life...
jigs

[byRo]

Originally Posted by WayDen

I'm not sure if I agree with what some people are saying about not being able to create digital paintings within Photoshop. I'm a 3D animator, and I frequent sites like CG Talk quite a bit. Almost all of the 2D paintings there are done in Photoshop, and they are fantastic and beautiful.

Let's try and clear things up a bit here.
You should use Corel Painter when you want to mimmick real-world painting techniques. You can make beautiful oil paintings, watercolours, charcoal sketches - but it seems that this is not what you want here.

You don't want a "painting", you want a digital image that looks real.
In this respect Painter does not offer any advantage (except, maybe in the most experienced hands), while Photoshop has more and better tools for you to use. Plus, you (and nearly all of us) have much more experience in PS.

So, in resume. If you want to do a Painting use Painter, for everything else use PS.

Rô

[jiggles]

Originally Posted by byRo

Let's try and clear things up a bit here.
You should use Corel Painter when you want to mimmick real-world painting techniques. You can make beautiful oil paintings, watercolours, charcoal sketches - but it seems that this is not what you want here.

You don't want a "painting", you want a digital image that looks real.
In this respect Painter does not offer any advantage (except, maybe in the most experienced hands), while Photoshop has more and better tools for you to use. Plus, you (and nearly all of us) have much more experience in PS.

So, in resume. If you want to do a Painting use Painter, for everything else use PS.

Rô

thanks ro for that, but perhaps it's a hair splitting thing here. I want to, amoungst other freehand art forms, sketch out the anime in storyboards and animate that into full color cartoon, maybe even go from 2d to 3d to live video, don't know yet. but i do know that i want to airbrush and charcoal sketch, and i have the Intuios art pen on order and want to use those effects as well. so i guess my question is, which software best exploits the capabilities of the tablet and pens to do freehand art?

your descrioption of going from one to the other sounds like a nightmare to me, but i have not used a corel product since v1 of Draw. If Painter supports Photoshop layers (or I guess layered tiff) then your idea might work for me. If it does not, then I can't use that workflow.

with that said, as I have not used a tablet in 6 years, i am going to have to learn one tool or the other in regards to painting, I am just weighting the options before i dive in. thanks so much!!!
jigs

[Swampy]

Here's my 2 cents...

I have Painter, but I've never had any fine art training. I'm not familiar with the various art media (okay, I know chalk, pen & ink etc., but as for oils, etc. I haven't a clue as to how to apply, blend or manipulate them). The whole "camel hair", impasto stuff is foreign to me.

I can achieve some things in Painter using various clone tools, but as for pure stroking with brushes, I'm all thumbs and usually end up with a smeary mess. Perhaps if I had more time to dedicate to learning Painter, I could accomplish more with better results.

I pull up Painter about once every 3 or 4 months and try, try again, but have yet to master any one technique. I envy those who have a background in art and have a better understanding of how the various media "works"

[akvis]

Originally Posted by byRo

If you want to do a Painting use Painter, for everything else use PS.

Rô

right words, fair words