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Pros and Cons of P.S. 7

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Old 04-17-2002, 10:05 PM
DannyRaphael's Avatar
DannyRaphael DannyRaphael is offline
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Contrarian point of view

There's a lively debate in the the PS/Windows forum over at on this exact topic.

Not everyone agrees with the "cons" listed by Mr. Margulis.

If this topic is near/dear to your heart, it may be worth your while to read differing opinions.

Me? I'm gonna hang tight until PS 8.0 comes out!

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Old 04-17-2002, 10:23 PM
john_opitz john_opitz is offline
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Mr. Raphael,

The web address is lhere

For that debate.......... Let's get ready to rumble. That forum(topic on Pros and Cons with P.S. 7) is better than watching WWF.

P.S. You will have to log in though. Just like RAW(WWF) you have to subscribe to it.
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Old 04-17-2002, 11:01 PM
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DannyRaphael DannyRaphael is offline
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Thanks, John...

...and you can call me Danny (but don't call me late for dinner, please).

Forgot is a login thing. Appreciate you posting the corrected link - as well as getting the discussion started here and across the way. Yer right: The fur be flyin' over there.

It was interesting to me to see a heavyweight like Jeff Schwee get so passionate.
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Old 04-17-2002, 11:48 PM
john_opitz john_opitz is offline
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Yes, Danny, it is nice to see a heavyweight get involved. BTW, here is a reply from Mr. Margulis to a another heavyweight. That heavyweight replied to Mr. Margulis about his first(Mr. Margulis') post about P.S.7.

Jeff writes,

>>Regarding this issue, Dan is simply wrong. There is a major industry push
for the usefulness and functionality of metadata (XMP being a major
advancement in Photoshop 7) and particularly EXIF metadata. For metadata
schemas to be at all useful, the applications than read files must be
enabled to use the embedded tags. In this case, Photoshop 7 rightly respects
the tags.>>

Jeff misinterprets my views but it's mostly my fault for writing in a sloppy

I agree that Photoshop should read and honor this tag. Now that I know that
many cameras, including mine, embed incorrect tags, I wish that there were a
way to turn the read off temporarily. However, hindsight is always 20-20 and
one cannot blame Adobe for not having thought of putting a turn-off feature

Although I listed it as Con #2, it really is no con in and of itself. It's a
con only because it's deadly in combination with Con #1, which is Photoshop
7's idiotic assumption that any time one opens a file with any color setting
other than the one found in the incoming file, this constitutes a change to
the file even if the user is only trying to examine, not alter it.

The idea of being able to open, say, 50 files from a given camera, look at
them under what we think are the best monitor settings, and then close them
again, hardly seems like an unreasonable request. Yet Photoshop 7 has managed
to find a way to make it so ridiculously inconvenient that anybody who's a
heavy user of such a camera is basically shafted.

>>Photoshop 7.0's behaviour is correct for industry standards. This was
pointed out to
Dan on several occasions by industry experts. I suggest if Dan wants a
crusade, he should take it to those companies-the camera companies-who are
screwing up. That's where the blame should be directed.>>

First of all, nobody had to point this out to me because I never took any
other position. As for complaining to the camera companies, let's get real.
We call them up, get to talk to somebody who's never heard of color
management, and state our complaint. And they respond: "Let me get this
straight. This camera works perfectly in Photoshop 6, right? And now that
you've gone to Photoshop 7 it's busted?" And they hang up and fall on the
floor helpless with mirth.

Dan Margulis
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Old 04-18-2002, 04:25 AM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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This is totally off the above subject, but a huge CON for me.

I installed the upgrage last night, and spent a few minutes checking things out.
I now remember the main reason I've never upgraded. I HATE how the clone tool works (Adobe changed the clone tool in version 5).

Since I use the clone tool 98% of the time, this is a major problem for me. Is there anyone here, who upgraded from 4, that can offer some tips on how to get this tool to work like version 4?
Otherwise, I'll probably revert back to version 4 for cloning, then move over to 7 for other stuff....what a hassle.

I had to vent.
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Old 04-18-2002, 08:13 AM
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CJ Swartz CJ Swartz is offline
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Ummm, Vicki -- can you remind me how the clone tool works in Version 4? I've been using V5.0 and 5.5 for a couple of years or so, and don't remember back that far.
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Old 04-18-2002, 03:27 PM
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jeaniesa jeaniesa is offline
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Vikki, Sorry - but I didn't start using PS until 5.02, so I've never known anything different.

Danny/John - Thanks for the additional link to the discussion in the Adobe forums. I got my PS7 today (yeah!) but don't even have time to open the box until sometime next week. :-( I think I'll do a little more reading in those forums to better understand if I might run into any trouble that I don't anticipate.

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Old 04-18-2002, 03:39 PM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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I don't know if I can explain the difference.....
From what I've read, in version 5 and up, it takes a snapshot when you start cloning, and clones from the snapshot--so if you run over areas that you have cloned, the ORIGINAL image reappears. You apply one stroke and it clones what is in the picture at the beginning of that stroke. If you want to make a clone of this clone, you have to apply a second stroke.
So basically, I have to keep starting and stoping.

In version 4, it does not reapply the original, but let's you keep cloning from any reference point you choose.

When 5 originally came out, there was a big discussion about the clone tool. Many people thought it was a bad choice on Adobe's part. I think I'll check out the discussion, maybe someone has as clue about how to make it work like version 4.
Oh, the other thing I forgot about, is the slow down, as the history brush records every stroke!

In the meantime, I'm going to give it a whirl, and see if I can get used to it.
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Old 04-18-2002, 05:11 PM
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jerry jerry is offline
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Hi John,

Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed. I am getting a free upgrade to ps 7.0 because I bought 6.0 recently. I'll give it a try but I am just a beginner and don't have the time constraints that you Pro's have. I have a question about a statement in your write up.

3) As most of us know, layered files saved in PSD format are much more
economical if the "Maximize Compatibility" option in preferences is turned
off. Otherwise, every layered file saves, in addition to the layers, a
composite flattened version of the file. This unnecessarily bloats the file
size, often doubling it.

I didn't know this (newbie showing). I was playing with the "Willie" challenge and my file ballooned up to 130meg. My machine was groaning. I unchecked the "Maximum Campatibility" box and resaved but the size stayed the same. I then started over and added 5 adjustment layers, and 10 more selection layers and the size was only 100meg on my new version.

Do you or anyone know if you can reopen files that were saved with the "Maximum compatibility" box checked and resave them as a smaller file..

Thanks in advance
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Old 04-18-2002, 08:49 PM
john_opitz john_opitz is offline
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Hello Jerry,

What you were doing was going to pref's while P.S was still open(unchecking the Maximum Campatibility) and if you resave it(changes will not take effect) those changes will not take effect until you restart P.S.
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