I'm mad at Adobe

[Doug Nelson]

Granted, my anger will be short-lived. My entire professional existence revolves around Adobe products, and I work with Adobe employees literally every single day. So it would be pretty stupid of me to hold a grudge for long.

But as I type this I've been on hold for over 20 minutes, and this is the 4th or 5th time I've been on hold for this long on this same matter, so right as I'm typing this I truly am furious at Adobe.

I purchased the Acrobat Pro Extended upgrade from the adobe.com store. It warned that I must have a copy of the previous version for the upgrade to work, but no problem, I've had every version for years. So the upgrade arrives and the activation fails.

It seems I can't just have the previous version installed, but I had to have the full retail copy of the standalone previous version. My suite version would not work (none of this would have happened if they'd mentioned that on their own website).

So I call Adobe, spend over an hour on the phone before the guy in India finally offers a refund. However, I'll need to pay return shipping, even though I'm really just destroying the software. Plus I need to send them a form promising I really, really did destroy the software.

I sent the form, even though I actually shoved the box in a drawer (not going to actually shred it until I get my refund). Now, a week later, I get an email denying my refund because my serial number has already been registered (I find out it's in use by a Mr. Martinez who lives in Los Angeles, 1000 miles away from my drawer). My new Indian friend helpfully informs me that the serial number probably got into the wild because I used Paypal and I shouldn't have done that (even though the Paypal link was on their own store site).

Even though they shipped me the software, and have a record of the serial number they shipped me, before I can get a refund I have to apply for a new serial number, and if approved I can file another destruction form with the new serial number. Assuming that is approved, I'll get a check in the mail (less shipping costs for a shipment that never took place).

So:

• I purchased the software directly from Adobe
• I purchased using the upgrade recommendation on adobe.com
• The software fails to activate due to "invalid upgrade path"
• Adobe knows the serial number was shipped to me
• I downloaded, filled out, and returned the form required
• Adobe denies the form because a pirate registered the software before their committee approved my application
• Adobe tells me it's my own fault because I clicked the Paypal button on their own website
• I'll need to wait at least another week to see if a replacement serial number is approved
• If approved, I'll simply cross out the old serial number (the one Adobe knows sent to me) on the form I sent Adobe and write in the replacement serial number, promising to destroy the replacement serial number
• If approved, I'll get credit, less what it would have cost them to pay for return shipping

and

• I've spent over a half-hour composing this post, and I'm still on hold.

***I should stress that I do NOT blame Paypal. The conclusion of that Adobe employee was just ignorant, and an attempt to shift the blame onto me. Pirates cannot get your serial numbers if you pay via Paypal (at least not because you used Paypal, they can get your serial number if they're reading all your email or website visits, which could happen no matter where you bought the software).***

[Doug Nelson]

UPDATE:

After another 10 minutes or so I decided to hang up and re-call. The rep tried twice to re-start my case from scratch, but I was adamant about immediate escalation, so now I'm on hold again (15 minutes and counting).

And before anyone goes off on tangent about serial numbers and the safety of online purchasing, this serial number was on the jewel box of the CD shipped to me via UPS. No serial numbers were sent via email or website during the purchase at all. Of course, that doesn't mean my emailed Letter of Destruction wasn't intercepted, but that's an entirely different argument.

[Doug Nelson]

I gave up after listening to that same smooth-jazz loop for over a half hour. Every few minutes it will tease me by clicking or changing briefly to a ringing sound. But I think that's just to keep my hopes up.

My ear is too sore to continue right now, I'll try again tomorrow.

[pixelzombie]

i'd be mad at them too, what a joke...

[lkroll]

I have CS2 upgrade so I wonder if I am going to have a similar problem when I upgrade to CS4 if I so choose. Now I'm concerned too. Hope you get things resolved with Adobe soon Doug.

[Doug Nelson]

I called back today and was informed that they have no mechanism for forwarding my phone call, which would explain why I was on hold for so long. She seemed shocked and wondered who would have told me such incorrect information, I pointed out the person's ID# would be on the notes she was reading so it would be obvious who "misinformed" me. Then she asked who I purchased the software from and did I have any proof of purchase. I reminded her that I purchased it from Adobe and they had all the proof she would need. She said she did not have access to that information (a blatant lie, since I already had a previous Adobe drone read me back my purchase info verbatim).

Finally she offered to "re-open my case", which I guess means taking it from the trash bin and moving it back to the "to be refused" pile. And then she informed me that it's my responsibility to prove Mr. Martinez is not the rightful owner and that I'll also need to take the initiative in following up on this matter.

[T Paul]

I find that if you keep calling, EVENTUALLY you get the smart person who knows what to do. Best of luck!

Unfortunately this is what "customer service" has been reduced to. When I upgraded to the suite version I ran into similar installation problems. The first person told me basically "tough luck" and that I would have to buy the full version even though the site says I was eligible for the upgrade and that the version should work. Eventually I got the smart person and the secret handshake/backdoor code to get the installation to work.

Luckily, when I switched to the Mac I converted my programs and have the full suite version now (instead up numerous upgrades) so hopefully (fingers crossed) the next upgrade will go smoothly. But with all the suite variations I suspect that might be overly optimistic.

[skydog]

Damn...sounds a little familiar. I had a stand alone version of photoshop CS2 then upgraded to a stand alone version of photoshop CS3. Last year I bought the suite CS3 which included photoshop CS3, indesign, and illustrator. When installing I declined the installation of photoshop CS3 since I already had photoshop CS3 on the computer. WRONG...CS3 suite bridge did not work with the stand alone. I had to uninstall everything and tried again...still didn't work. I then called Adobe India support where I had to uninstall again plus use a "special program" that was sent to me to insure everything adobe was not on my computer. Then I reintalled and every thing worked.. Now CS4 is out and I really only want to upgrade to photoshop, but I cannot upgrade a stand alone version with the photoshop in the suite. I must upgrade the suite or unintall the suite and only upgrade and use the standalone. I also can't have both the standalone and the suite version of photoshop on my computer at the same time..bummer.

But Adobe is not alone with customer service. I had the same issue with microsoft two weeks ago. 15 min waiting...finally get someone from India...tell them all the details of my system, my address, name etc, and define the problem only to tell me that they need to refer me to another technician. I must at that point regurjatate the same information. Then they tell me to conduct a virus scan...if I still have the problem call back. I call back...get a new agent and the cycle repeats itself...

[gmitchel]

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

I called back today and was informed that they have no mechanism for forwarding my phone call, which would explain why I was on hold for so long. She seemed shocked and wondered who would have told me such incorrect information, I pointed out the person's ID# would be on the notes she was reading so it would be obvious who "misinformed" me. Then she asked who I purchased the software from and did I have any proof of purchase. I reminded her that I purchased it from Adobe and they had all the proof she would need. She said she did not have access to that information (a blatant lie, since I already had a previous Adobe drone read me back my purchase info verbatim).

Finally she offered to "re-open my case", which I guess means taking it from the trash bin and moving it back to the "to be refused" pile. And then she informed me that it's my responsibility to prove Mr. Martinez is not the rightful owner and that I'll also need to take the initiative in following up on this matter.

The customer service center in India is a real help. I don't want to sound like an anti-India rant. But the peole are not well trained and next to useless in resolving issues. Then, when you want to speak with a supervisor who can actually do something, no joy. Try to get a connection back to the Adobe headquarters! Good luck.

I have run into this so often now. Delta airline, Toshiba, etc. Since they no longer provide any significant documentation. Just a handful of DVDs. For several hundred dollars, you would thinbk they could have more than 1 person in customer service for every $10 million in sales.

cheers,

Mitch

[Dave.Cox]

I feel for you Doug! It seems like the trend these days is to export customer service to India. Of course, the low paid customer service agents in India have one goal, and one goal only. To get you off of the phone. They are actually measured on how quick they can get you off of the phone, and move on to the next call. No measurement for Customer satisfaction at all. And so, customer service is pretty much down the toilet! A good trick, is to find out who the CEO is, and try to call him/her direct. Those important people usually have customer service people surrounding them that have customer service super powers. If you can get to one of them, you may be able to get your problem resolved. Unfortunately, it isn't an easy thing to do, and will require even more phone time on your part.

So, Good Luck. I hope you get it resolved.

Dave.

[Benny Profane]

Hey, no problem, just go over to the competition. No ..... wait .... there is no competition. Call the anti trust lawyers! No ..... wait .... there are none anymore. They're all lobbyists now.

[skydog]

Even when I call my local cable company for service I get someone from India....then I go throught the protocol that has been handed to them. For some companies you can get someone stateside if you call during the the week from 8 to 5. Nothing personal again India, but bottom line the technical Service just isn't there.

[CJ Swartz]

Poor customer service is bad enough, but misrepresentation of the requirements to operate on your machine AND an unwillingness to make their error right is reprehensible behavior and bad business.

"And then she informed me that it's my responsibility to prove Mr. Martinez is not the rightful owner and that I'll also need to take the initiative in following up on this matter." - when the serial number was on the software box shipped to you (!!!) If your number matches the number they sent you, it should not matter whether someone else is registered with that number - it could be theft or merely a typo - but that's not the point - your number matches the number sent to you and there should be no further question - simply assist you in getting reimbursed. The idea of paying for shipping charges when there is no shipping involved makes my head explode, so I won't even discuss that part of the agreement.

[Doug Nelson]

UPDATE:

I remembered that there is another 800-number for Adobe posted on their website, the sales number. From experience I know the treatment at that number is the exact opposite from the other number, they tend to bend over backwards to try and keep you on the phone (trying to sell you things).

So I called the sales number, was connected to someone in the US almost immediately. I apologized profusely for knowingly dialing the wrong number, but he graciously said it was OK and he'd be happy to try and straighten everything out.

And he did, or at least claims he did. Supposedly in a few days I'll receive a full refund. And bless his heart, after I thanked him and tried to hang up he kept me on the phone awhile longer trying to get me to buy something.

So, if you take nothing else away from this thread:

• You can't upgrade suite components to the standalone versions and vice-versa
• Don't ever let yourself be "handled", corporations count on your complacency

[Kraellin]

i'm somewhat surprised by all this, doug. the few times i've dealt with adobe over the phone i've come away fairly well pleased. but, i must have dialed the sales number; i never got the folks from india.

my nightmare sales experience was with a computer store i let service my computer once. so, glad you got it resolved

[dianemcken]

Thanks for sharing Doug. It helped me understand a situation that I had with them. When I contacted Adobe and said I have these products, how much money to upgrade to a suite, they gave me a quote so ridiculous it would be cheaper to just buy the full suite and start over. But they never explained that there isn't a path from standalone to suite.

Diane

[Dave.Cox]

Yes, going to the sales organization is always a good idea. They know that without satisified customers, getting additional sales is diffacult at best. They have much more incentive to make you happy, and sometimes even have the clout to make things happen.

[Doug Nelson]

I just got an email from Paypal that my payment has been refunded (less the $6 shipping, but I won't even get into that).

So I am officially no longer mad at Adobe.

[skydog]

Instead of creating a new post "I'm mad at adobe II", I thought we could express all our frustrations here. See my earlier post above for previous history. I just bought CS4 Design upgrade only to have problems with the installation. The upgrade does not recognize the serial number of my CS3 Design package. I called sales and told them the story and the cut me off in the middle of my talking and connected me immediately to someone in India. Needless to say...no help. They told me to call back to technical support on Monday...I will keep you posted.

[marliz]

Glad I found this. I knew there was a reason I didn't want to upgrade. I'll stick with CS3 and be happy.

[bpurvis]

Now I'll always be afraid to buy an update!

Does anyone know how often Photoshop comes out with a new edition? I purchased CS3, and CS4 came out 2 weeks later! I'm hoping the CS5 will come out before my son gets his degree. The academic pricing for students and parents of students is nothing short of phenomenal.