Windows 7 - are you taking the leap?

[isabel95]

I have Painter 9.5 and never installed it on my Vista machine because I've read about problems with it.

I just got Kim Komanda's daily email today in which she said, " Some Windows 7 versions will offer XP mode. That will make backward compatibility even more assured."

Wonder how 9.5 will run with that setup.

I had wanted to order one of Carrie Woeck's tutorials but then realized I probably wouldn't be able to use my version of Painter with Vista.

Isabel

[Kraellin]

well, win7 is slated to come out on the 22nd of this month, so, i'm guessing we're going to find out for sure about your question. but, i will say this, i've played with win7 a tiny bit and it's pretty darn slick. it's also VERY stable, according to everything i've seen and read, even more stable than win2k, which is microsoft's most stable o/s before this. it also has a much smaller footprint than vista, taking up only 6 or 700 megs as opposed to vista's almost 2 gigs. that shld help make things run better. and, yes, win7 has a compatiblity mode, but then, so does vista and so do a lot of the other microsoft o/s'es.

i bought vista just a little while ago with the knowledge that i'd be getting win7 for free when it hits the stands. i NEVER buy a microsoft product straight out of the factory! NEVER! but, this time i am. so, that shld tell you something.

i cant guarantee any software will run under win7. but, of all the o/s'es that microsoft has put out, of all the hype and of all the promises, it may just be and is certainly giving the apparency of, this being microsoft's first true, out of the box, good operating system. so, fingers crossed, let's hope the hype meets the truth for once

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

... i NEVER buy a microsoft product straight out of the factory! NEVER! but, this time i am. so, that shld tell you something.

...fingers crossed, let's hope the hype meets the truth for once

Hmmm... It tells me you're diving in, but not "why." What has prompted such a major shift in philosophy? Did you participate in beta testing so you are much more confident in rollout quality of Win7? Or what?

FWIW I would wait for SP1 unless there was an exceptionally compelling reason to take the leap. Postponing awhile also gives hardware and software vendors time to work out the first rounds of device and/or application bugs.

[pavel123]

I also heard a quite a few positive comments about Win7 from people who are normally not so enthusiastic about Miscrosoft. At any rate, bugs will be in the first release no matter what. Me, I plan to buy a new PC as soon as machines with Win7 will be available, I was postponing the upgrade for quite a while not willing to get Vista, so I should be able to give a first hand account regarding compatibility issues.

[LQQKER]

It's difficult being positive about a new operating system, until a service pack is available or a miracle from divine intervention. Usually, it's not the operating system itself but compatible drivers, and existing software upgrades from a multitude of software companies that simply have not quite figured out the code and reaction completely (without customer experimentation), which can be an excercise in frustration.
I was early in having a system with multiple quad processors which was my initial reason for having Vista so I could have cpu efficiency. Well . . . in theory that seemed like a plan . . .

[Kraellin]

danny, my first contact with win7 was in a retail computer store. they had dumped vista from all their machines on display and put win7 rc (release candidate) on them all. now, that alone wouldnt warrant my change, but, i also had a chance to play with it and to talk to folks about it. the salesman was particularly exuberant about it and gave me a demo. there are some impressive new features. the footprint is also considerably smaller than vista and, like i said before, it's more stable than any other o/s microsoft has ever put out. and, that seems to be confirmed over and over in the reports one sees on web sites. and, microsoft itself, for the first time in their history, is advertising the stability. they have never done this before because they knew folks would laugh them out of the marketplace, but they are this time and it seems to be true.

my other compelling reason is that i bought a powerful new I7 64 bit motherboard/cpu. this rig also has dual RAID terrabyte drives (auto mirroring backup with the RAID), 64 bit vista (with win7 free when it arrives) and a nice new lcd monitor and 6 gigs of ram, which can all be accessed in the 64 bit system. this is the first time i've ever bought such a powerful machine in a custom build. i specifically wanted the 64 bit o/s and system for the available ram. oh, and the video card has almost a gig of ram onboard. so, with all this power, i didnt want to go retro to winxp. i've had too many crashes with winxp, blue screens of death crashes. so, i decided to listen to the hype for once and take the plunge. if win7 is crap, i can always put vista back on. so far, vista is fairly stable with sp1 on it. it's only blue-screened once so far. but, it's bloatware and you can tell here and there.

basically, win7 is vista stripped down and stablized and then enhanced a bit. thus, it's learned all the wrongs from vista and eliminated them. i dont know, danny; it just seems the right move this time. i normally never go for a first release, but the RC has been out for quite a while and they've debugged it to death from what i can tell. also, the RC will not be good after about june 2010 and if you get the official release you actually have to delete the RC first. you cant just overwrite it. so, i was going to just try the RC but with that having to completely remove it bit, i decided to just get vista now and go with the official release.

basically, my new rig is 8 to 10 times faster than my older, single core machine. i needed a new one for some commercial work i've been working on involving very large graphics files and i wanted a rig that would stand up for a while. from what i've seen and heard of win7, i think that's going to be the o/s i keep for a long while now.

oh, and win7 has a compatiblity mode that will run your winxp software. so, if that works right and if the hype meets reality, i'll be computer heaven for a while

[lkroll]

Yeah; I tried to pre-order Win7 from Tiger ($99 for pro upgrade). They said that it's still pending; let's just hope that I still get it at that price. I too have heard the hype; even ran a VM version of it. The fact that the VM ran as good as it did tells me that it's quite thrifty with resources. The analogy based on the hype I've heard is that you get the eye candy of Vista with the resource savvy of XP. I sure do hope so. Plan on going 64 bit all the way too when I get my upgrade.

[aartist]

I also am enthusiastic about the release of win7 and went out recently and purchased a new desktop computer with a promised free upgrade kit of win7 once it's out later this month.

My feeling is win7 is what vista should have been but microsoft never delivered. Lots of people stayed with winxp or win2k due to vista's poor ratings. All I've heard to date about win7 are positive and encouraging from people in the know. I hope they are right.

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

danny, my first contact with win7 was in a retail computer store. they had dumped vista from all their machines on display and put win7 rc (release candidate) on them all. now, that alone wouldnt warrant my change, but, i also had a chance to play with it and to talk to folks about it. the salesman was particularly exuberant about it and gave me a demo. there are some impressive new features. the footprint is also considerably smaller than vista and, like i said before, it's more stable than any other o/s microsoft has ever put out. and, that seems to be confirmed over and over in the reports one sees on web sites. and, microsoft itself, for the first time in their history, is advertising the stability. they have never done this before because they knew folks would laugh them out of the marketplace, but they are this time and it seems to be true.

my other compelling reason is that i bought a powerful new I7 64 bit motherboard/cpu. this rig also has dual RAID terrabyte drives (auto mirroring backup with the RAID), 64 bit vista (with win7 free when it arrives) and a nice new lcd monitor and 6 gigs of ram, which can all be accessed in the 64 bit system. this is the first time i've ever bought such a powerful machine in a custom build. i specifically wanted the 64 bit o/s and system for the available ram. oh, and the video card has almost a gig of ram onboard. so, with all this power, i didnt want to go retro to winxp. i've had too many crashes with winxp, blue screens of death crashes. so, i decided to listen to the hype for once and take the plunge. if win7 is crap, i can always put vista back on. so far, vista is fairly stable with sp1 on it. it's only blue-screened once so far. but, it's bloatware and you can tell here and there.

basically, win7 is vista stripped down and stablized and then enhanced a bit. thus, it's learned all the wrongs from vista and eliminated them. i dont know, danny; it just seems the right move this time. i normally never go for a first release, but the RC has been out for quite a while and they've debugged it to death from what i can tell. also, the RC will not be good after about june 2010 and if you get the official release you actually have to delete the RC first. you cant just overwrite it. so, i was going to just try the RC but with that having to completely remove it bit, i decided to just get vista now and go with the official release.

basically, my new rig is 8 to 10 times faster than my older, single core machine. i needed a new one for some commercial work i've been working on involving very large graphics files and i wanted a rig that would stand up for a while. from what i've seen and heard of win7, i think that's going to be the o/s i keep for a long while now.

oh, and win7 has a compatiblity mode that will run your winxp software. so, if that works right and if the hype meets reality, i'll be computer heaven for a while

Well thought out, Craig. I appreciate your insights.

I wonder if Win 7 in XP mode will be able to see/utilize > 4 GB of RAM. That would make my day. Or does ability to address > 4 GB of RAM require 64-bit OS?

[amica999]

have win 7 running over a month and after Vista it's a relief, no glitches so far, having a tech net plus abo updates run smoothly. can recommend going for it.

[plugsnpixels]

7 RC runs just fine on Macs using Parallels. I've also heard good things about it from a developer who says it's the best version of Windows to date. So good for Microsoft!

[Kraellin]

Or does ability to address > 4 GB of RAM require 64-bit OS?

hi danny,

your maximum ram capacity is determined mainly by the bit size of a 'byte'. it's basically a binary thing in that the 'byte', which used to be 8 bits and is now up to 64, is the determining factor. most xp machines are 32 bit. this means they can access up to about 3 gigabytes of ram and that's if you have the patch in xp which allows this (otherwise you're limited to two). in a 64 bit system, the byte is now 64 bits, which in turn allows for a ton more ram. my current machine has six and can access it all and has the capacity to add six more, and again, access it all.

so, the answer to your question is, if you have a 64 bit motherboard and a 64 bit operating system then yes, you can break the 3 gig limit.

and, if you wish to figure this yourself, just count in binary as high as you can go with a 32 bit byte and a 64 bit byte and you can see just how high the numbers are for each and that's the limit on each.

[lkroll]

I will add that I updated my RAM today for a total of 6GBytes (can go up to 16GBytes with my current MB). Couldn't justify the cost for higher RAM (nor the wait since I would have had to mailorder it). 2GBytes was quite smooth; 6Gs even better. Not I can have man VMs open (like Ubuntu, XP Pro and Win98) without worrying about memory issues.

[pavel123]

Pardon my ignorance. Does regular (32 bit) soft work on 64 bit Win 7?

Pavel

[lkroll]

For the most part yes pavel. Win7 64 separates 32 app installs from 64 but runs both. See screenshot attached of my C drive.

[aartist]

Just installed last night. Now I get shutdowns and blue screens and wireless internet that only works when it wants to or feels like it. It is an upgrade kit that was sent directly from HP for this particular computer.

Some drivers that either Microsoft provided or HP provided are screwing it all up.
Good luck!

[pavel123]

Thank you, Lyle

[lkroll]

Wish I could be of assistance aartist, but Win7 still is way too new for me to give advice. I will say that I hope you started out clean (i.e., formatted HD). I used an upgrade CD, but had XP Pro, so I was forced to do so, but even if I had Vista, I would have chosen a clean install. Hope you get things figured out; when you do so, I would appreciate any info that gave you the solution (I fix PCs and you never stop learning or picking up things in this field).

[aartist]

Lyle, It was the included windows7 upgrade kit from HP. No clean install but the computer was new and almost a virgin. I did find someone on the net with exact same problem, with exact same computer and with exact same upgrade kit.

Anyone doing the upgrade should first go to manufacture's website and download all drivers and have them ready before installing windows 7. My Nvidia Graphic and Realtek Audio drivers were not properly installed by the upgrade kit. Window's automatic update provided the wrong drivers also. Make sure to stick with drivers the manufacturer provides from their website and don't let Microsoft do automatic updates either.

Good thing I had another computer that would download these drivers because the updated computer would not stay online long enough to complete the download process. BLUE SCREEN of death and disfunctional operation. Man, I thought I was back in the days of Windows 95.

Note: The drivers should have been included with HP's Windows7 upgrade kit, hence the word "kit". Once someone gave me the heads up on which drivers were causing the trouble, I was able to download them and install them without trouble. In my opinion, HP dropped the ball by not provided driver information with their kit.

[lkroll]

I really like HPs, but I've had my share with issues fixing them. I remember when SP3 came out and the AMD HPs had some issues due to, believe it or not, Intel Drivers (not used, but Microsoft and a caniption with these being on and AMD system and then came the BSOD). I know the solution to this now of course, but my first experience with this one was a headache (I mean, SP3 had been out for several months before I actually started to install the SP; oh well; lol). Good that you got your driver issues figured out; will keep a note on this in case I have to upgrade HPs for clients that I may get that want the upgrade.

[fonelan]

im gonna make the leap at the start of the year. I think im just gonna get a new machine with it already installed. 2 months should be a good amount of time to see if i want to upgrade on over.

[lkroll]

The thing that will make Win7 a great OS is, though they did it a little on the clunky side, encouraged the use of VMs (XP-Mode) with the admission that compatibility is an issue and the attempt to at least address this using one of the most popular OSs that they sold (i.e., XP). You don't see a Vista mode. lol

VMs the future. Really, it's the only way to stop malware imo. I used VirtualBox and an XP VM for all my browsing needs (do use XP-Mode for some of my Dad's software since it required the Serial port and haven't gotten it to be friendly in VirtualBox for whatever reason, so I gave up on that issue for now; XP-Mode works fine with that software package (blood sugar meter)). Also created win Win98 VM to play some oldies but goodies that never really played well in XP but works fantastically in Win98 (UNO and Bicycle Solitare; had the solitare game when I actually had a Win3.1 OS; lol). Those games work great in VM Win98. The introduction to VMs to the masses (I know VMming has been around for a long time, but was not really introduced formally to the common Dick or Jane) is what Win7 did. Using a VM as a defacto Sandbox will stop a virus cold (doesn't alleviate the need for anti-malware software, but Microsoft Security Essentials works fine for me; Windows Firewall is fine for my needs too). I go further (use Sandboxie in my XP VM), but that's for added protection since I lean towards the Andy Grove school of thought (seen way to many mal-infected machines too, so that makes me even more sensitive; lol). I even use Ubuntu in a VM on occasion. VMming will finally be adopted by all is what my hopes are for Win7. With modern MBs, hardware VM acceleration makes the transistion smooth too (my MB supports this; as a side note, XP-Mode can not be installed if your MB doesn't).

Just as a deviation, I found this cool (but frivaless) tool to texturize the toolbar. Also, see this for some more fun that I found Win7 can do (just wish my mouse could invoke this; I know that this feature probably originated in Vista, but you have to understand that I've been XPing for over 7 years now; lol).

[plugsnpixels]

I run Windows XP/7 beta and Ubuntu Linux on Macs under Parallels, and it's a breeze to play with these OS's. I hope to get the final Win7 soon.

I recently discovered Seven Transformation Pack 3 for XP and slapped that on to get rid of the Windows ugly ;-). Very clever tool!

[taymarfoto]

I pick up my new computer tomorrow with 7 installed, here's hoping all is ok but good to read the reports.

Thanks

[pavel123]

Did anybody tried to use Zone Alarm Firewall with Win 7 64 bit?
I can not seem to get it to work, although in theory they are compatible.

Pavel

Apologies, I just found an answer. There is no Win 7 version

[pavel123]

I got my Win 7 computer yesterday and, guess what, I saw my first blue screen in many years, when computer crushed for no apparent reason. I suppose I've taken the leap too yearly, always prudent to wait for MS to work out bugs and such.
Could be not just Win 7 but a combination of Win 7 and HP.

[aartist]

Kinda like the commercial they (Mac) are running on T.V. right now. The one about not having any of the problems that the previous version of Windows had. If you haven't seen the commercial, it's very funny. So funny, it hurts!

I've experienced blue screens off and on with my HP too after upgrading from Vista. Had another one yesterday. Brings back many painful memories of shutting down and loosing data.

[pavel123]

I was quite happy with XP, so I did not upgrade to Vista and waited for Win 7 to hit the market, well, should've waited longer...but it does seem that the problem is HP AND Win 7 since nobody reported blue screens to my knowledge.

At this point I am contemplating returning my computer back to HP

Pavel

Aartist: what is your the model of your HP computer? I have e9260f

[aartist]

I guess my questions is, what the hell was wrong with XP? Why Vista and now Windows7? Oh yea, I forgot, Micro-s o f t wants to make more money.

[Kraellin]

pavel,

most likely your blue screen was the result of older drivers that arent compatible with win7... yet. this tends to be a standard issue with new o/s's, particularly with microsoft o/s's. this is only partially microsoft's fault, but, it happens with every new o/s. the best thing to do is to go to each manufacturer's site and start getting the latest drivers for your devices. they may not even have them for win7 yet, but most of the devices from major manufacturers will. HP is a major manufacturer, so they shld have most of the new drivers and if they dont, they will pretty soon, i would guess.

that is one area where macs beat pc's since mac keeps a closed architecture. so, when mac releases something new, they have almost complete control over the drivers. but, it also works against mac because we geeky folks dont like closed architectures. we like being able to replace our own harddrives and not spend $800 for one harddrive replacement. so, there's always a tradeoff. frankly, i'd have bought a mac long ago if they'd just open their architecture up to third parties and end users. for a company that prides itself on creativity and innovations, that's not very creative or innovative.

but i digress... just update your drivers, especially video drivers. i've seen more blue screens because of video card drivers than anything else.