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How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & LR4?

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  #11  
Old 05-28-2013, 07:48 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by RobertAsh View Post
True, but manufacturers still need to support it in order to make it an adopted industry standard, and they haven't done that.
TIFF or DNG? What makes it 'an industry standard'? ISO adopted TIFF and DNG is in committee. Both formats are openly spec'ed and free for anyone to use (unlike PSD). Camera manufacturers will support DNG when either hell freezes over or photographers collectively understand the huge disadvantages of proprietary raw files and demand in mass, manufacturer's support saving a DNG in-camera. Just like they've done from day one with a JPEG. This isn't a technology issue, it's totally political.

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That's what I meant by Nikon TIFF - Nikon's implementation of TIFF,
The only people who get to spec the TIFF implementation is Adobe. Either Nikon is following this or they are breaking the rules (or using private tags which I believe is possible in TIFF in which case, it's moot, only Nikon would understand what they did with proprietary metadata, just like DNG). Now as we both wrote, most raw files are based on a TIFF but they are created to their manufacturer's ideal, are proprietary and have to be hacked to be understood by everyone else (not the case with DNG, it comes with a decipher ring if you will).

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2) TIFF implementations are more widespread but still are not consistent.
a) e.g., some programs support layered TIFFs, some don't.
Layers are proprietary Adobe processing technology. Another app that can read this data may preset it to you, you can't edit that data as you did in Photoshop. The flattened version (Baseline TIFF) is key here OR you move back to an Adobe process that understands blend modes and all the proprietary Adobe processing on a layer.

Bottom line is this: TIFF is I believe the most widely used and most archival and flexible image document file format. It's owned by Adobe. The same is true for DNG. If you fear Adobe, forget wide gamut, high bit data and layers anyway, save as JPEG. Personally I'd never do that, I archive everything as DNG or TIFF.
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  #12  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:30 AM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

Robert raised an interesting issue regarding TIFF's different flavors. Is there a most universal variant, ie, regarding compression, pixel order, byte order, etc?
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  #13  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:37 AM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
Robert raised an interesting issue regarding TIFF's different flavors. Is there a most universal variant, ie, regarding compression, pixel order, byte order, etc?
The spec is open and further, TIFF 6.0 is really old! Dating back to 1992. You should expect any software product in recent memory to support a TIFF.

http://partners.adobe.com/public/dev...tiff/TIFF6.pdf
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:56 AM
Lena48 Lena48 is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

I, too, will not be able to afford a monthly fee and I use Photoshop and InDesign. Is my only option going to be to go to a different app? What the heck can I use instead of InDesign? CorelDraw instead of Photoshop? I am very very unhappy about this development from Adobe. Have they any clue what they are doing to us (and do they care)?
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:34 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by andrewrodney View Post
The spec is open and further, TIFF 6.0 is really old! Dating back to 1992. You should expect any software product in recent memory to support a TIFF.

http://partners.adobe.com/public/dev...tiff/TIFF6.pdf
So you're saying that any app or platform that reads tiffs can handle all variants of tiffs equally? I'm not challenging that assertion, just making sure I read you correctly.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:39 PM
RobertAsh RobertAsh is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
Robert raised an interesting issue regarding TIFF's different flavors. Is there a most universal variant, ie, regarding compression, pixel order, byte order, etc?
One of the basic ones is LZW compressed 8-bit or 16-bit format that is compliant to the long-time, well-established Aldus-Microsoft standard. That's the format DxO Optics Pro reads easily. Most other programs should as well, at least the ones I'm familiar with.

I'll defer to the retouching experts regarding byte order or other TIFF variants in the retouching/publishing industry.

Not sure what you mean by pixel order.

There are tons of other variants, including a number of Adobe option plus all the major camera raw files, as I shared above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
So you're saying that any app or platform that reads tiffs can handle all variants of tiffs equally? I'm not challenging that assertion, just making sure I read you correctly.
No, they can't. That's the core, very serious problem we all face in this digital age.

Standards only matter when they have impact in the marketplace by getting adopted in uniform manners by vendors across the industry. Otherwise they either:

1. Sit on a shelf and rot (i.e. go obsolete and remain ignored), or

2. Proliferate into endless variants intended to lock customers into vendor-specific technologies and solutions.

Right now, Door #2 is the rule of the day and looks to remain so for the foreseeable future.

However, as long as Adobe and its universe of partner products are around, those will be accepted by major publishing houses, retouching and photo labs, etc.

Last edited by RobertAsh; 05-28-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:55 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
So you're saying that any app or platform that reads tiffs can handle all variants of tiffs equally? I'm not challenging that assertion, just making sure I read you correctly.
If they follow the 1992 TIFF 6.0 spec, yes.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:04 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

When saving a TIFF out of Photoshop, you have several options; fortunately these settings are “sticky” meaning that once you set them, they will remain that way until altered. Here’s a rundown of what the settings do:

Byte Order: Mac or PC? Well that’s a debate that will continue on, but in this case, pick PC since the Mac will have no issues with this Byte order but the ancient PC software may.

Pixel Order: Interleaved is supposed to be a more common way of saving a TIFF and the default, traditional method used by Photoshop from day one. The Per Channel option is supposed to be a little faster at reading and writing the data. The dialog does give some idea of what the differences are; the pixel order is the way color information is written in the document, so with interleaved, each pixel is written in the RGB sequence (RGB, RGB, etc) while Per Channel is written in that order (RR, GG, BB etc).

Save Image Pyramid: This is an option few need to worry about as few modern applications utilize this method of storing multiple resolution levels within a single document. If you’re old enough to recall Kodak PhotoCD, FlashPix or Live Picture’s IVUE format, you have experienced formats that used multiple resolution levels within a single document. TIFF also supports this mode and hence, its an option in the Save dialog. You probably have no reason use it however.

Layer Compression: How should the layer data be compressed? Note that with layers, it’s the pixels themselves, not the transparency that accounts for the increase in document size. So if you have a 2nd layer that is all pixel data, it will take up far more space than a layer that has only a small part of image data, surrounded by transparency (the checker board). An Adjustment layer is tiny, its essentially metadata describing a correction. RLE (Run Length Encoding) uses a lossless compression much like LZW on your layers. Or you can use Zip for an even smaller document but at the expense of speed in saving and opening the document. Both greatly aid in keeping the resulting TIFF with backwards compatibility to a manageable size. Your call here, faster speed or smaller documents?
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:11 PM
creativeretouch creativeretouch is offline
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Re: How long can we expect Adobe to update CS6 & L

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Originally Posted by Lena48 View Post
I, too, will not be able to afford a monthly fee and I use Photoshop and InDesign. Is my only option going to be to go to a different app? What the heck can I use instead of InDesign? CorelDraw instead of Photoshop? I am very very unhappy about this development from Adobe. Have they any clue what they are doing to us (and do they care)?
I am happy to say that I use Scribus http://www.scribus.net/canvas/Scribus instead of InDesign for more than ten years now )

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http://photoapps.info and http://shotworldwide.com
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