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Colour Management - Help!

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  #1  
Old 03-23-2004, 03:34 PM
Ian W's Avatar
Ian W Ian W is offline
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Colour Management - Help!

Using Photoshop CS, when opening certain images I get a message stating that the embedded profile does not match the working space profile.

Should I convert it to the working space profile or preserve the embedded profile? What is the right thing to do in terms of ensuring that what I see on the screen appears on my printer or on prints produced by a third party? (I have calibrated the monitor).

Any guidance on what colour settings I should be using, or typical settings that other users have found to be ok, would be appreciated!

Ian
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:27 PM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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Personally, I would "preserve" the embedded profile, then convert to your working space.
This will ensure that the image looks it's best before being converted.
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Old 03-23-2004, 10:01 PM
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This is interesting. Vikki may be right but I'm not sure. Let's assume your Photoshop profile is set to Adobe RGB 1998. You are importing an image with an sRGB profile. This profile was designed for low end consumer color scanners,digital cameras and inkjet printers and is unacceptable for high quality color production because of the extent to which it clips the blue-green part of the spectrum. So if you're ever concerned about image quality, never use sRGB for any image that will ever be printed.
Mind you, sRGB is notoriously poor color space and you may be importing profiles with less obvous limitations. Ultimately, you will need to work in a color space that gives you the gamut you require. (assuming you are going to print, if it's just for the web, the whole discussion is rather moot)

I would try Vikki's solution first, preserve the imbedded profile, work on it then convert to the space you want. But also try converting directly to the color space you want. See which method gives you the results you desire.

Keep in mind, there can be hundreds of different profiles. Here's the trade off. Narrower the gamut the less banding. Wider gamut more banding. It's all about finding the balance.
My own preference. Convert all your periferals to Adobe RGB 1998.

Let me know if this makes sense.

Cheers
Duv
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Old 03-23-2004, 10:15 PM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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I can't say I agree about your thoughts on sRGB. From my experience, printing small to large (24x30) portraits with an sRGB profile, I've had no problems. Anyone printing to a Fuji printer (many large volume printing services use this) is advised to use sRGB, and should be aware that it ignores embedded profiles.
As far as preserving the profile, it really depends on what you intend to do with the image.
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Old 03-24-2004, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikki
I can't say I agree about your thoughts on sRGB. From my experience, printing small to large (24x30) portraits with an sRGB profile, I've had no problems. Anyone printing to a Fuji printer (many large volume printing services use this) is advised to use sRGB, and should be aware that it ignores embedded profiles.
As far as preserving the profile, it really depends on what you intend to do with the image.
I guess the point I was trying to make was that Ian may be importing images into PS in a number of different profiles: Adobe RGB 1998; Apple RGB; ColorMatch; sRGB and perhaps others. Perhaps I misunderstood your post which I thought you were suggesting always importing and staying with the imbedded profile, making your changes and then converting to whatever the end use is; web, print, whatever. As an "amateur", I've always found it less complicated converting to Adobe RGB 1998 simply because it gives me good results whether I print or post to the web.
With respect to sRGB, I don't work with large volume printing services, just a Canon i9100. My experience follows a few others in that it lacks considerable blue green gamut. Color space and profiles are also something I'm trying to come to grips with in my work.
Apart from what I "think" I see..I'm trying to square with what I read..
" sRGB: Good for people who create Web graphics and would like to limit the colors used in their images to those that can be seen on an average user's screen. Less than ideal for anyone who will end up printing on a commercial printing press or photographic process because it has such a limited range of colors available" -Ben Willmore, Studio Techniques.
"sRGB color space was designed for low end consumer color scanner, digital cameras, and inkjet printers and is "unacceptable" for high quality color reproduction because of the extent to which it clips the blue green part of the spectrum. If you're concerned about image quality, never use sRGB for any image that will ever be printed." -Michael Kieran, Photoshop Color Correction.
"The first thing you'll want to do change is the RGB color space. Photoshop's default color space sRGB IEC61966-2.1 is arguably the worst possible color space for professional photographers. This color space mimics an "el cheapo" PC monitor from four to five years ago. I wouldn't even recommend this space for web designers today, and it's fairly ghastly for photographers, especially if their photos will wind up in print." -Scott Kelby, The Photoshop Book
"The goal of sRGB is to develop an 80% solution that puts a single "stake in the ground" recommendation that solves most of the color communication problems for office, home and web users. Using sRGB is aimed at achieving the equivalent experience of dropping off photos for printing. You are not asked for what temperature you want." - www.srgb.com

I think regardless of what you think about sRGB or any other color space, to Ian's question, personally, I think it's easier to convert everything to the color space you are most comfortable with. Which I "think" for most people is Adobe RGB 1998 because of it's flexibility.

Pleeese keep in mind I am NOT a professional like Vikki and am only trying to learn like everyone else.

Cheers
Duv
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  #6  
Old 03-24-2004, 08:44 AM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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I don't mean to blow this off, but I'd rather not get into a lengthly discussion about this.
We all have to find what works best for us. There are debates all over the web about this, so it's easy to read up on these and choose what's right for your workflow.
Here's are just a couple of links:
http://epaperpress.com/psphoto/index.html
http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc025.html
One thing that I wanted to mention was the importance of montior calibration. Do this first.
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Old 03-24-2004, 09:20 AM
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No problem Vikki. I do go on. To Ian's question, I hope others offer up their thoughts. It's an important area that I think deserves more discussion.

Cheers
Duv
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:14 PM
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Ian W Ian W is offline
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Phew!........... All I want is my holiday snaps to look OK!

Thanks for the technical info Duv, but as Vikki suggests, I think I'll just play around and see what results suit me best.

Cheers, Ian.
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2004, 05:18 PM
Vikki Vikki is offline
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LOL!
I think color management should be in the same category as politics and religion.

Last edited by Vikki; 03-24-2004 at 05:33 PM.
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2004, 07:26 PM
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Ian W Ian W is offline
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.....And thanks for the links Vikki, a couple of well put together, useful, straightforward web articles there.

Ian.
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