3D RETOUCHING -- Maya, Cinema 4D, Modo. Lightwave

stevebarrett · #1 09-23-2006, 03:30 PM

Hi,

Does anyone use 3D programs to help them with creative or production retouching? I have been doing this for quite a few years and wondered if anyone else has made the attempt to learn and integrate 3D into their retouching workflow.

3D programs are becoming better at rendering high quality images in a reasonable amount of time. Of course it is hard to get the beautiful gradations of photographs without major post work.

It would be nice to see members post their 3D retouching. Composites, typography, painterly or pure 3D would be cool to see. I see a new creative paradigm shift that is happening in the retouching industry.

You can see my work in the gallery, to get an idea of what I am on about. The Saturn and HP ad are examples.

Thanks,

Steve

HannibalVector · #2 09-23-2006, 06:08 PM

I am a big fan of 3D design. But for now it's way outta my league.
I tried 3Dsmax a while ago, but I decided to stick by 2D for now. Also rendering took al my enthusiasm away. That took an eternity on my machine.
But in the future I definitely want to learn 3D design, and I think it would also be helpful for retouching, especially for image manipulation.

stevebarrett · #3 09-24-2006, 01:13 AM

To stay in this business, I think you'll need to have a little knowledge in 3D. CGI Backgrounds.com offers photography for 3D rendering. Automobile photographers are losing work to computer graphic firms that render the original CAD data from car manufacturers. Check out the photoreal renders. http://www.cgibackgrounds.com/samples/index.html

I heard that one of the new Ford catalogs was produced using CGI cars. It makes sense for manufacturers because they don't have to create real prototypes of the cars for photography, and design changes can be made up until the last minute. The car renders a very clean, so you need to DETOUCH the images by adding dirt and noise, to make them look real.

Humans are difficult to render, but there are advances being made in organic too. I see more realistic renders being produced everday. See http://206.145.80.239/zbc/featured2col.php

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by HannibalVector

I am a big fan of 3D design. But for now it's way outta my league.
I tried 3Dsmax a while ago, but I decided to stick by 2D for now. Also rendering took al my enthusiasm away. That took an eternity on my machine.
But in the future I definitely want to learn 3D design, and I think it would also be helpful for retouching, especially for image manipulation.

Cameraken · #4 09-24-2006, 05:36 AM

Hi Steve

I have recently downloaded (free) Poser 5 and Bryce and I also have ZBrush2 although I have not done anything with them yet. All these 3D programs appear pretty daunting to a newbie.
Thanks for the links posted above. All those images at ZBrush Central look amazing.

I just wondered which program you would recommend to learn first?
Which would help most with retouching and restoration? Let’s say I just wanted to replace a hand or a foot or make a new nose or mouth.
In the past I have spent far too long searching for body parts at the correct angle. It would be nice to have a library of parts that could be manipulated to the correct angle.

Ken.

Doug Nelson · #5 09-24-2006, 06:19 AM

I hear Strata has the most approachable 3D apps for those of us used to Photoshop. They also have a photo-to-3D app that's quite clever.

stevebarrett · #6 09-24-2006, 11:11 AM

Hi Ken,

Poser 6 is in a league of it's own. You can manipulate figures easily and morph the body parts. Currently, there is a lot of puppet-like imagery being created by users, but the software company is developing more detailed models every year. The new image based lighting offers more natural lighting effects with HDRi light probes.

I think it a software that has possiblities for the future. For now, you will have to be able to draw, retouch and paint really well to make the generated humans look photoreal.

http://www.facegen.com/ is an interesting piece of software. Check out the overview video.

Alot of 3D artists use http://www.3d.sk/ for 3D modeling. Maybe you could incorporate anatomical parts from the photo library. The photos have flat lighting used for 3D modeling.

3D can't really be convincing without base photography. All 3D programs wrap photos around wireframe models. in Zbrush, a user can litereally paint skin and pores in 3D. See http://www.pixologic.com/zbrush/educ...classroom.html Take a look at the Kris Costa tutorials.

Creating photoreal humans in 3D easily will be possible in the near future. For now, there are no easy tools to make humans. Keep up with this area and continue developing your Photoshop skills.

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cameraken

Hi Steve

I have recently downloaded (free) Poser 5 and Bryce and I also have ZBrush2 although I have not done anything with them yet. All these 3D programs appear pretty daunting to a newbie.
Thanks for the links posted above. All those images at ZBrush Central look amazing.

I just wondered which program you would recommend to learn first?
Which would help most with retouching and restoration? Let’s say I just wanted to replace a hand or a foot or make a new nose or mouth.
In the past I have spent far too long searching for body parts at the correct angle. It would be nice to have a library of parts that could be manipulated to the correct angle.

Ken.

stevebarrett · #7 09-24-2006, 11:13 AM

Hi Doug,

I haven't used Strata for a while, but I will check out the latest version and let you know what I think.

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

I hear Strata has the most approachable 3D apps for those of us used to Photoshop. They also have a photo-to-3D app that's quite clever.

Doug Nelson · #8 09-24-2006, 11:26 AM

I put a link to a pretty cool movie showing Photoshop integration with Ghost Painter over in Salon.

Cameraken · #9 09-24-2006, 06:19 PM

Thanks for the info Steve and Doug

I have tried to download the Facegen video but is has stopped half way. I will try again later. (There is also another program that has been mentioned at RetouchPRO called FaceFilter Studio) These look pretty easy but I think they are really just for faces.

http://www.3d.sk/ WOW. Thanks for that link. That is a great resource. It’s a little expensive for my needs (maybe I can make a mask for the watermarks

)

I will read the Zbrush tutorials when I get time.

It looks like I should persevere with Poser. I will keep reading. I do agree that in the future these 3D programs will become more integrated into restoration

Thanks again for the info.

Ken.

stevebarrett · #10 09-24-2006, 11:00 PM

Hi Doug,

Maxon's BodyPaint is another cool stand alone software that's similar to Ghost Painter.

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/.../bp3d_2_e.html

The Maxon Hair module is cool. http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/...aircreate.html
http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/...material2.html
http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/...mmetrycut.html

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

I put a link to a pretty cool movie showing Photoshop integration with Ghost Painter over in Salon.

stevebarrett · #11 09-26-2006, 11:48 AM

Here are some 3D oriented retouching houses. Does anyone know of any others?

http://www.sb-showcase.com/cgi.php
http://www.seagullsfly.com/
http://www.taylorjames.com/photograp.../tj-menu-3.php
http://www.electricart.com.au/
http://www.platinumfmd.com.br/
http://www.rocketart.com/
http://speedshape.com/index_content.html

3D info
http://www.tenlinks.com/News/PR/art_vps/072006_ford.htm
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive...l-photography/

Cheers,

Steve

Doug Nelson · #12 09-27-2006, 03:26 AM

I just came across this
http://andromeda.com/main/threedluxe.php

stevebarrett · #13 09-27-2006, 09:54 AM

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the link. I used to use the Screens filter for black and whites quite a bit. Some of the new creative filters are very cool.

Steve

withatwist · #14 12-30-2006, 02:09 PM

Hey Steve

http://www.withatwiststudio.com

the new website goes online 1/10/06

we are a creative partner with Rocket Studios for CGI (you have their link above)

as far as 3d packages go...we use MAX/Vray.

Our work is also features in CGIbackgrounds as well.

we are also looking for creative retouchers in our Detroit office.

thanks!

david burton

stevebarrett · #15 02-19-2007, 11:50 AM

Hi David,

I just returned from a vacation overseas and noticed your post. You produce some very cool work!

I have a few general questions. Many of the retouchers and artists here in this forum should start learning definitons and jargon used in the the 3D world.

Do you use CAD data for your automobile renderings, model from scratch or both? Are you using Modo for any modeling?

How long does it take , on average, to render a high resolution car image for print?

I've never used Max or Vray. Are these pure Vray renders and how much retouching do you have to do to the final renders?

What kind of camera do you use for HDRI images? Is the Spheron camera a good solution?

Congratulations on the excellent animation and print work!

Thanks,

Steve Barrett

Quote:

Originally Posted by withatwist

Hey Steve

http://www.withatwiststudio.com

the new website goes online 1/10/06

we are a creative partner with Rocket Studios for CGI (you have their link above)

as far as 3d packages go...we use MAX/Vray.

Our work is also features in CGIbackgrounds as well.

we are also looking for creative retouchers in our Detroit office.

thanks!

david burton