Models wanted

[Doug Nelson]

No, not you (but you are a sexy thing, you).

I'm looking for 2 specific 3D models for a test I'd like to run here. They'd both need to be either already free, or released for our purposes here. They'd need to be in a common format (OBJ, 3DS, etc.). Both need to be texture mapped and complete (test is lighting and rendering, not modeling and texturing).

1) A bell pepper, preferably "interesting" (ie: not too idealized)
2) A curved white backdrop, cloth or paper, no pattern at all, pure white (texture OK)

If you're thinking this is starting to sound a bit Weston-in-Mexico, you are correct. That's the test I'm planning (not to match or emulate, just everyone working from the same common models).

[Alison]

Originally Posted by Doug Nelson

No, not you (but you are a sexy thing, you).

Bugger!

[Ziaphra]

Got me all excited for nothing! lol!

[Doug Nelson]

That's funny, why am I all excited?

Oh, and my bad, it's a pepper and a wooden bowl, not a pepper on a seamless background.

A bowl should be easier, anyway.

[T Paul]

Try the google sketch 3D warehouse:

[Cassidy]

sheesh doug, nearly got my teeth fixed for this one

[Stroker]

I can do a bell pepper. Model and UV map it, but not really in the mood to texture. Well, maybe a rough texture to show the major landmarks. How dense do you want the mesh?

Not really sure what you mean by a curved backdrop. If you can show me a photograph or a quick sketch, I should be able to do this as well.

[Doug Nelson]

That would be great! I'm not really certain what the difference is between a UV map and a texture, (I thought they were the same thing, or one is what you do with the other). But sure, as long as there is a texture in place, that's fine (Photoshop can't originate textures, but it can edit existing ones). As far as mesh, I'll leave that up to you, as long as it's dense enough to be photorealistic (given a proper texture).

See above note about nixing the backdrop. Generic wood bowl is fine (walnut, teak, whatever). As long as it looks "real", and the pepper can fit into it (see above linked photo).

The idea is less to have perfect models than it is for everyone to have the same models to start with.

[Stroker]

Wood bowl - I'm a sucker for cherry and mahogany. Got it.

When it comes to rastor textures, the UV map translates the 2d rastor to 3d space. I'm sure you've seen 2d wireframes for painting on 3d objects. Templates, so to speak.

Now, texturing the bell pepper can be tricky. Changing the over all color isn't much of a problem. But other maps that come into play can be a pain. Specular? Gloss? Reflection? Procedural or rastor? These things depend a great deal on the software used, especially when it comes to lighting and the renderer.

Something like a bell pepper would probably be better left to attributes in the material. Personally, I wouldn't use any 2d rastor textures for a bell pepper.

I don't know. We can figure this out a little further down the road.

I've never done a pepper before, but what I've done so far is certaintly interesting. Purely organic in a weird shape. I'm gonna start from scratch a few times so I can get a better feel for it. Once I get a better feel for the edge-loops, I should be able to knock out several for you to choose from.

[Doug Nelson]

This is really excellent, and I appreciate the time you're putting into it.

As you (and the other readers) have probably surmised, I'm planning a 3D challenge similar to our photo restoration and retouching challenges. Now that Photoshop can handle 3D models and rendering plugins are starting to hit the market, I think it will be a good time to start studying what goes in to making a "photo" that incorporates or is entirely based on 3D models.

Of course, I won't limit it to just users of Photoshop CS3 Extended, since evidently there's only about 3 of us that post here regularly so far (and I'm probably the only one of those 3 that has the Strata plugin). But I do think techniques used in 3DS Max, Lightwave, Modo, Cinema 4D, Maya, Strata, or even Photoshop CS3 Extended can help users of any of the above (or more) just as Photoshop techniques can be adapted for Paint Shop Pro or Painter (and vice versa).

[Dave.Cox]

Is this close to what you are looking for, for the background? If so, I'll post a link for the 3DS file for you. Otherwise, give me an idea of what you are looking for, and I'll see if I can do it.

[Doug Nelson]

See my note above, a plain wood bowl is actually what's needed.

[Dave.Cox]

2) A curved white backdrop, cloth or paper, no pattern at all, pure white (texture OK)

This is the portion that I was replying to, although I might do the bowl for you as well.

[Stroker]

I think I'm getting the hang of it. The base mesh and loops are good. But I'm not used to working this dense, so the loops are getting a tad out of whack (but should be fine at this density). And the UV is decent.

Now I gotta practice shaping it and add a stem. Yeah, shaping is fun. Grooves and bumps and stuff. "Interesting." Hehehe.

If I remember correctly, the textures have to be added already when imported into CS3 Extended. Is it possible to import a texture onto the mesh after you import the mesh into CS3 Extended? All I really remember hearing is that there is something funky about textures once you get into CS3 E. Anything you can tell me about this greatly appreciated.

[Dave.Cox]

Here's your wood bowl, but I haven't been able to figure out how to preserve the texture in a 3DS file.

By the way Stroker, Great Job!

[Doug Nelson]

Photoshop can't add textures, but it can edit them.

As for preserving with 3DS, I've only worked with OBJ, and they get saved as 3 files, the OBJ file, a JPG texture, and an MTL file that matches them together.

Both props are looking very good. If the final files are too large to attach here, just email them to me. (dnelson at this domain)

[Stroker]

E-mail sent just to check a few things before proceding further. Ducks in a row and stuff.

[creeduk]

I did not open this for a while thinking it as indeed the photographic type of model you wanted..LOL

Sign up for Turbo Squid, although they sell 3D models they have a ton of free ones, just search the item and change the order to show by cost and the free ones are at the top. I have grabbed a few objects to use in CS3 this way.

As a note if anybody applies texture using plugins or built in texture libraries they will not make it to PS, they have to be bitmaps. I have found issues with mapping, I did a hockey puck and found that the mapping was not honored in Photoshop, this was because I used a cylinder mapping and Photoshop just slapped it on square.

[Dave.Cox]

I finally got the 3D file exported with the texture files. I can see the texture loaded in the layers when I load it into Photoshop, but I can't see it on the image in Photoshop. If you have an idea how to get it to show, please let me know. Any way, here are some images. I would email the files to you, but I don't see anyway to add an attachment to your email.

[Doug Nelson]

Got the bowl file, though it looks a lot different in Photoshop. Also got the pepper file.

First thing I noticed was that Photoshop won't let you rotate more than one object. Second was that 3D objects in Photoshop are on layers above and below each other, just like photo layers, so they can't interact. I can't even export them simultaneously to the Strata render filter.

Here's a quick b/w mockup of what the final challenge will look like, using the two models so far. It's supposed to be b/w, which works out because I can't get Stroker's pepper to show in color. (see link in post #4 for context)

Hope you don't mind if I link to your files. That way everyone can play along. If you make improvements just let us know:

Pepper
Bowl

If you have any changes to make to the models let me know and I'll replace the zips. Once you're satisfied, let me know and I'll start a new thread with the challenge.

[Stroker]

I will most certaintly keep working on the pepper model. Even if someone comes along with a much better model, I'll keep working on it for personal reasons. There is something about it that has piqued my interest, and that doesn't happen very often.

[Dave.Cox]

Linking to my files is not a problem. As far as PS goes, you are correct, PS puts the object in layers, that look like a smart object. You can reposition the object to get it to look like you want, and then rasterize, or convert it to a smart object. I never could get it to display the material though, and I am not sure if it was something that I was doing incorrectly. It will be interesting to see what others come up with. Let me know if you need anything else.

[creeduk]

I had no problem seeing the texture with the OBJ bowl, I re-saved the data from Studio as a 3DS file and found the texture looked better defined in Photoshop when opened from the 3DS.

I re-saved the texture as a jpg just to save space as I am at work and cannot upload to remote site, hence needed to attach in the 100kb limit.

I use 3DS format for nearly all my work like this and don't really have an issue, all you need is to export the 3DS file with preserve texture coordinates checked.

[Doug Nelson]

It's strange, the texture does seem sharper with the 3DS file.

This is very educational.

[creeduk]

Yeah I thought it was strange and read them both in side by side, the OBJ is kind of blurred in comparison. I have not had chance to run the other formats but it would be interesting to know which one gives the optimal result.

[Dave.Cox]

creeduk, thanks for the feedback. The check box "Preserve texture coordinates" is checked by default, and I always leave it checked, yet I still can not get the textures to be included in the file. If I import the 3DS file back into Studio, or into PS, still no texture. I sure would like to know just what it is that I am do wrong.

[Doug Nelson]

Adobe trumpets the collada format. I wonder how it would compare to 3DS and OBJ?

[creeduk]

Dave as long as the texture is an external file like your TGA and it is in the same folder as the 3D file then Photoshop reads it with no issue. That has been my finding so far any way.

[pixel_monkey]

I made this last night. Didn't have time to texture it, so I used an apple texture from one of my past projects for it. It looks like an illegitimate offspring from an apple and a bell pepper if they mated. I'll try to export the OBJ and upload it tonight. Not sure if Photoshop could handle the texture since I used a shader instead of a bitmap.

[Doug Nelson]

Should be interesting. I did think on first look that it looked a bit apple-y That should be easily fixable in PS by cranking up the green a bit.