Synthetic Imaging - - 3D element in 2D image

pixel_monkey · #1 05-14-2008, 02:37 AM

Here's an image that I just finished using 3D as one of the main elements in the scene.

Image #1 is the original photo from Jasz that can be found in this thread.
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/pho...s-retouch.html

Image #2 is the concept sketch.

Image #3 is the imported 2D image in 3D for setting up the shot.

Image #4 is the simulated CG water made up by about 5 million polygons rushing through a street corridor.

The last image is the finished version with the rendered CG water comped in Photoshop.

041567970 · #2 05-14-2008, 04:38 AM

WOW, you sure have skills!!! Nice work.

Vernon · #3 05-14-2008, 07:48 AM

It almost looks like your are using Cinema 4D to render your 3D. Is it 3D Max you are using?

pixel_monkey · #4 05-14-2008, 03:08 PM

Thanks.

The water is rendered with Mental Ray in Maya. It took at least 20 hours to render one frame at 3k. I started the render right before I went to bed, woke up the next morning, went to work, got home from work, and it was still rendering. I have a fairly fast CPU running with 4 gigs of workstation ram, too. There were just way too many polygons in the scene and all those reflections, refractions, and all other properties to calculate...I'm just glad that it didn't crash.

superkoax · #5 05-14-2008, 06:39 PM

creative, yet a bit nerdy(in a good way)...

But I would like to point out that the wave in her back doesn't look very real...I'm not a 3d wiz in anyway,so i hope I don't ruined your day...

Maybe a bit blue colour to the water would help? Or reflections from the background behind the picture would work? hmmm...

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers

Gerry

pixel_monkey · #6 05-14-2008, 07:44 PM

Yeah...I'm a huge Photoshop nerd...haha.

I know what're you saying. The bottom half of the wave appears darker it's because it has a much larger volume of water as oppose to the splashes up top. Therefore, very little light was able to pass through...just like you'll be able to see the bottom of a stream and not the bottom of a much larger body of water, such as rivers and seas. I just used what came out of my render. No worry...do say what you feel here. You didn't ruin my day. Btw, I didn't intend to create a realistic scene with this. When was the last time you saw raging water rushing through street corridors with models getting ready for their close up? haha. It's just one of the many ideas I have and I decided to make this one happen.

lynx123123 · #7 05-25-2008, 01:40 PM

Have you tried playing PANGYA guys? Thats a heck of a 3D model..haha..Its a nice game for those who don't know how to play golf in real life.....well its an online game...and its a fun game

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crazyfly1 · #8 05-29-2008, 06:56 PM

Just a thought pixelomonkey, what if you used vanashing point in photoshop to tell maya the perspective? Mark out the lines on the buildings in the background and then exprort into maya and back into photoshop. Not sure how it would work, just a what if.

pixel_monkey · #9 05-30-2008, 05:03 PM

I've haven't tried this, yet. I do know that Maya lets you import Illustrator paths, but I'm not sure about Photoshop data. I can tell you that it's not going to work well, because you still have to manually position the camera in such a way to match the 2D image plane in Maya...and it's definitely not going to work when it involves animation when you have to animate the camera. The Perspective Camera in Maya will automatically give you perspective when you place an object in its view. You can also measure distance in Maya that'll give you a much more clear idea of how far the distance between each object is as oppose to try to figure it out in Photoshop. Some very useful info that I took from the picture was the exif data that I used to help me set up the camera in Maya with a similar focal length to match the one that was used in the picture.

crazyfly1 · #10 05-30-2008, 05:25 PM

I have Maya but I'm not at all experienced with it. I do know that photoshop cs3 has some pretty decent compatibilaty and functionality for 3d. After you draw out the planes with VP you can go under the layer menu and choose 3d layers, transform 3d layer which will give you the camera position as well as the ability to animate. I know ps will export into 3d max so I would asume it will play with Maya. Again I'm shooting from the hip here just trying you make helpful suggestions.

pixel_monkey · #11 05-30-2008, 07:13 PM

I'll have a deeper look into Photoshop 3D layer when I get the chance. I was not impressed at all with Photoshop 3D layer at my first introduction...maybe because I already know Maya and know that using a robust 3D program, such as Maya and Max will produce much better results. I find the new 3D feature in Photoshop is just not developed enough to be used in a production environment. I shouldn't be presumptuous, but I'm pretty sure Adobe has no intention to replace After Effects with Photoshop Extended. Compositing, camera tracking, and animation are what After Effects designed to do. It's pretty much the industry standard program alone with programs like Shake and Combustion. Oh...one thing that I found very unsettling with Photoshop 3D layer from a modeler perspective is that I first have to build and texture my model in my 3D program, but instead of taking advantage of my 3D program ability to render out advanced features like global illumination lighting and HDRI, I need to import my time consuming to build 3D model in Photoshop only to have it come out at the pre-rendered stage is just...pointless.

synthetamine · #12 06-19-2008, 01:18 PM

regarding the realism and you pointing out that you weren't aiming for it... here's some tips anyway

the water render could be improved in photoshop, it looks like you blurred the background to hide the quality of it, its not even a depth of field blur, the model is now just clearly superimposed. also blurring it completely moots the reason you rendered it in 3K in the first place.

what you should do is mess more with the "water" in photoshop (blending modes, color changes, opacity) also you should look into using some stock photos (or your own) of waves crashing.

In one of my works here I have done that,
http://rdelw.deviantart.com/art/Trident-81454813
you could easily have that wrapping around buildings, and use it to hide the "plasticness" of the render.

pixel_monkey · #13 06-20-2008, 01:08 AM

I always tend to render my stills big enough for the files I work on since they're either raw or hi-res tiff format. 3k render is not unusual, but you're right about 3k for this particular image is a bit too much after I realized that this picture was shot at f4.5 and everything behind the model was off focus. With that being said, I didn't blur the background. The only thing I blurred here is the actual render to match the background, so a 1k file should work as well.

Using stock images was not the intent of this project. Otherwise, I would've posted this in the compositing forum. Anyway, thanks for the great tips on the wonders that I could do with blend modes, opacity, color changes, and the wrapping tool in Photoshop.

Anyway, if you were trying to show how to create convincing looking water with your example, then it's probably not the best one. The water in your picture just lacks in uniformity. The splashes/crashing waves just don't seem they're coming from that same body of water. It's very obvious that they're external sources and that's probably the reason why the aerial perspective is just off. Perhaps, that was your artistic intent as what I've done to mine.