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Why the lack of LAB and other general ?s

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  #1  
Old 01-29-2006, 10:49 AM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Why the lack of LAB and other general ?s

I was debating whether or not I should put this question in the retouching forum or here but anyhoo. I figured that LAB would be a very extensively discussed topic here. Most that are involved in retouching and are experienced use LAB and those that are learning it are usually having a difficult time doing so. Since it has so much value to the retoucher, I was just interested in why it wasn't discussed more often. When I first saw this forum I actually expected to see a Topic titled LAB. That's my deal with that.

I have another question that is totally unrelated but thought I'd throw it in here. Why does this site take so long to load up. I find it annoying. Not enough to turn me away from the forum cause it has so many nice people but it would at least 75% of the time for most sites.

One final question that is not very important but caught my attention. Why the words for the smilies on the right instead of the actual smilies? Never seen that.

Only the second question has to do with something that's annoying. The first is just a "how come" type of question more than anything. I'm interested in the reasoning behind all three though.
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:53 PM
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byRo byRo is offline
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imann08, I'll offer a personal (as in, not site policy) answer.

LAB space is just another colour space like RGB, CMYK and it has been around for a very long time. It had been mostly ignored but now, thanks to Dan Margulis, LAB has got its due attention.
It is a very powerful tool, but it is just that - just another tool. It doesn't solve all of your problems, and much care must be taken deciding when to use and when not to use LAB.

Some people do use LAB and some don't. I guess that neither of the two sides has had any doubts - or we would have had some more LAB threads posted here. If there were a lot of threads, then it would get it's own subforum.

3rd question) As to the smilies - must be something in your configuraton, they're all a'winkin and a'blinkin at me here (IE and FireFox). Maybe someone has experienced this and will have a good answer for you here.

2nd question) Maybe the same answer as the third.

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Old 01-29-2006, 07:18 PM
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Cameraken Cameraken is offline
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Hi Imann08

You say that LAB is useful in retouching and, Yes it is, But I have still found Nothing that can be done in LAB that can’t be done in RGB.

There are some situations where something can be achieved quicker or in fewer steps in LAB but I have not, as yet, found anything that can’t be done in RGB.
If you have an example I would be most interested.


Ken
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Old 01-29-2006, 10:43 PM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameraken
Hi Imann08

You say that LAB is useful in retouching and, Yes it is, But I have still found Nothing that can be done in LAB that can’t be done in RGB.

There are some situations where something can be achieved quicker or in fewer steps in LAB but I have not, as yet, found anything that can’t be done in RGB.
If you have an example I would be most interested.


Ken
BTW, my name is Isaac in case anyone cares. You should see much more of me now that I have found this forum. I think it is very good.

I think there are numerous ways in which LAB is better than the other two main colorspaces. I am not experienced in this area by any stretch and am probably as wet behind the ears beginner as you can get but by reading Dan Margulis' book (I'm only half way through it) I am positive that there are things that can only be accomplished in LAB. There are some things that may be accomplishable in hours compared to minutes with LAB but you might as well call that impossible cause who is going to spend that kind of time on something they do in minutes. One thing that I would use as an example is when you have a person with a large contrast between their skin and shirt. If you try to use the unsharp mask on that picture you will get awful borders between the skin and clothes. With LAB you will not. Another example that comes to mind that is doable on RGB or CMYK but not nearly as easily is removing a colorcast without damaging an object within the picture with the same color. In Lab you can both remove the colorcast and increase the vibrant color of the object in one move instead of having to use multiple moves and masks. I could mention a whole slew of other things like this but getting Margulis' book would be much better than hearing it from me. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and maybe Margulis is pitching LAB too hard but not as I see it.

In regards to the slowness of the site and the smilies I am using Firefox so I don't think it's that. Now it may be some setting that I have in my firefox but I don't have this "problem" with any other forum or site I use.
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Old 01-29-2006, 11:32 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Isaac, pleased to address you by your actual name. Just wait till you get through the 2nd half of Dan's book. Your point is quite valid. There are things you can do in LAB which would take so much extra effort to duplicate in RGB that it would not be worth it. However, there are many things that can not be done in LAB and still others that can be done much more effectively in RGB or CMYK. Dan touches on some of these but leaves out a number of others.
It is really great to have so many powerful tools in PS, LAB being a very important one.
As for the speed of this site, I find it one of the fastest of any I visit - and one of the most reliable (Up time). Perhaps there is an issue in your configuration or the routing through your ISP.
Regards, Murray
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:43 AM
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CJ Swartz CJ Swartz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imann08
...
In regards to the slowness of the site and the smilies I am using Firefox so I don't think it's that. Now it may be some setting that I have in my firefox but I don't have this "problem" with any other forum or site I use.
Isaac, are you using a dial-up or a broadband connection?

I have a broadband connection, and this site loads instantly; a number of other members have dial-up connections and seem able to work easily here (based on their frequent posting behavior), but a dial-up connection could be part of your problem. If you're using a software firewall such as Zone Alarm, as I hope you are, you may need to change some setting in it to allow you full access to our smilies, images, etc. Doug (website owner) used to have a tip on the home page telling about this, but I can't find it since the website re-do last fall..
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Old 01-30-2006, 01:15 AM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Swartz
Isaac, are you using a dial-up or a broadband connection?

I have a broadband connection, and this site loads instantly; a number of other members have dial-up connections and seem able to work easily here (based on their frequent posting behavior), but a dial-up connection could be part of your problem. If you're using a software firewall such as Zone Alarm, as I hope you are, you may need to change some setting in it to allow you full access to our smilies, images, etc. Doug (website owner) used to have a tip on the home page telling about this, but I can't find it since the website re-do last fall..

Dial up? aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! no. I have a DSL. I am on a firewall but, like I said this is a new problem for me and I've been on tons of forums. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise. Don't know what the deal with me is cause it appears that others are getting it just fine.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2006, 01:25 AM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermonday
Isaac, pleased to address you by your actual name. Just wait till you get through the 2nd half of Dan's book. Your point is quite valid. There are things you can do in LAB which would take so much extra effort to duplicate in RGB that it would not be worth it. However, there are many things that can not be done in LAB and still others that can be done much more effectively in RGB or CMYK. Dan touches on some of these but leaves out a number of others.
It is really great to have so many powerful tools in PS, LAB being a very important one.
As for the speed of this site, I find it one of the fastest of any I visit - and one of the most reliable (Up time). Perhaps there is an issue in your configuration or the routing through your ISP.
Regards, Murray

I am very aware of LABs restraints. Not all of them specifically, but that it has plenty of them. My main point is that LAB can be so useful in enough areas that I would think that it would be talked about much more. I think those that don't use it have been frightened away by the myths about it or it's complexity when they already have a full grasp on the other two colorspaces. Personally, I feel that they just don't know what they are missing. Granted I have never read a book more slowly in my life but it's been worth every minute. I think the blending of colors, the blurring and sharpening of images, the idea of the imaginary color and how it helps, the abilities it gives you to knock out colorcast and enhance the same color in specific areas of an image in one move, plus other things like it's value with the portrait seem invaluable to the retoucher. Like I stated though, I am a beginner in this area and am just speaking from first impressions. I think the fact that more people don't talk about it is that most either don't know about it or haven't discovered this book or don't want to spend the time learning it. I also think that anyone involved in using it has to have questions about it. It's that difficult where I can't see anyone understanding it all on their own.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:36 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Isaac, excellent comments. I think to take the most advantage of LAB, users need to be comfortable with the use of Curves. Most people are very uncomfortable using curves and they are one of the last things that tend to me understood and practiced in PS. There are a lot of members of this forum who are strong aadvocates of LAB, so I am sure if you decide to start a thread on an interesting LAB topic or challenge, you will promote a lot of discussion.
Regards, Murray

When the only tool you use is a hammer, every problem you attempt to solve resembles a nail
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2006, 09:42 AM
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Ed_L Ed_L is offline
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Welcome aboard, Isaac. It's always good to have new blood bring up subjects like this. My personal use of LAB has been very limited, usually to sharpening. I'd be interested in learning new techniques, using LAB when it is more benificial to using RGB. Would you care to write a tutorial on the subject? I'm sure you would have a lot of people checking out the benefits of LAB. If you write one, don't worry about getting everything right in the initial offering. You can always edit the tutorial, and if someone sees a mistake, or has questions, they'll politely ask about it.

Now, on to the question of site speed. I usually run Firefox, but occasionally use IE. I have almost never had a problem like you describe, and I've been around here since dirt became known to man,

Ed
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