RetouchPRO Sponsorship (trial balloon)

[Doug Nelson]

I think the poor turnout for this specific thread gives me most of my answer. I'll need to make up my mind soon, since there's over $600 in site bills waiting for me in the next 3 months.

As for handing everyone a prize just for trying, that undermines the concept of any sort of winner, removing any incentive to try. But there's nothing keeping anyone from simply bragging about being a "RetouchPRO Sponsor". Depending on the number of entries, I could see eventually spreading it out to a first and second runner-up, but that would be down the line.

Think about it from a client's point of view. What could RP offer a retoucher that might impress a potential client? Would they be impressed that the retoucher has successfully entered some contests? I don't know about you, but I'd not only be unimpressed, but would actually get a negative impression from that. Would you rather eat some chili that was successfully entered in the Texas Cook-Off, or some that won it?

[Duv]

Doug. I know the overall expenses to run something like RetouchPro has got to be a hell of a lot more than 600 bucks. Sounds to me that your ideas should be floated and inputed over the next year without the immediate financial concerns.
I'm submitting my annual donation of $50. I'll cover that by cutting down on my toilet paper usage each day. To cover the 600 that's just another 11 donations of $50 (that's less than a buck a week). Let's make it happen folks!

Cheers
Dave

[kiska]

I donated $50 a couple of months ago. Sounds like a good and fair amount.
kiska

[Vikki]

In reply to Doug mentioning the lack of contributions to this thread:
I've been thinking about your question and couldn't come up with an answer or a suggestion (perhaps others are are still pondering too).
I'm just going to brainstorm here, and you can decide if there's anything worthwhile.

Regarding incentives: I've been trying to think of something that would "entice" me to purchase a membership. So far, all I've come up with is this: Honest and useful critiques, by one's peers. I'd like to have a voting system that critiques challenge/contest entries. It could be broken down into elements. Sort of like the Miss America contests. So many points for "effort", "technique", "creativity", "skill", etc. Points for different categories would allow "newbies" to rack up some points for their work, even if it wasn't the actual "winner". I'd like to go all out and add the ability to subtract points for similar items (not following instructions, taking too many artistic liberties, etc.) One MUST be a paying member to vote or submit entries for voting. A quick and easy method of voting might encourage members to provide some feedback, when they might not have the time or inclination to "comment" on every image.
I'm guessing that my idea is beyond the capabilities of the current software, but I was "brainstorming".....

Regarding your initial ideas:
"Sponsor" would become a new user title: I'd rather have a lot of gold stars next to my name
Higher upload limit in the Member Gallery: maybe, but I'm not happy with the way the gallery works now. It's like it has a mind of it's own. Maybe it's me, I just can't get it to do what I want.
Participation in new monthly contests: I like this one the best, although if the same people are always winning, the participants will likely dwindle (and therefore payments would too). Although, if a point system were used (as mentioned above) it might work.

I just had another idea. This would be an alternative to paid membership, and goes back to the donation method. Because I often forget about making a contribution, I was thinking that one specific challenge could be named the "Donation" challenge. In order to participate, members must make some sort of contribution. There doesn't have to be a winner. It would also be a way to acknowledge those that do make contributions.

Well, that's all I have for now.

[G. Couch]

I'd pay for a sponsorship...all I would ask is that you keep any sort of contest simple. There are currently so many challenges and sections to this site that it overwhelms at times...it's great that everyone has their own little niche but if you are planning on some sort of "pro" level monthly contests, just keep it to one per month and keep it simple (not that there could not be a restoration one month followed some sort of "photo art" the next)...I could care less about star, points, titles or anything else beside my name.

The other thing I would like to see is that any such contest be judged by a pro, whether it be someone who posts on this site or someone from the outside. That might not be feasible every month but I think it would go a long ways to giving such contests a legitimacy and real meaning if one were to win. That kind of contest would stir the competitive instinct of pros and amateurs alike...I'll be burning the midnight oil to win the first one!

[W. Rose]

Just starting in Photoshop (about a year) and learning what I have here on this site, I have already made some money. And it is all because of RetouchPro and the wonderful people here. I have bought books for fifty dollars and more, so I have no problem putting some of my money here where I have received more help.
As for a contest, good idea I guess, but members like me probably would not participate because we have seen the competition and you would have the same group of winners each month. Also would members still be willing to share their knowledge with someone else if they were trying to win a contest (human nature tells me no). Just some of my ideas and thoughts. But I do think we should all contribute to help pay the bills.

[jeaniesa]

The bottom line for me is that I continue to pick up so many useful tips and I'm happy to support the site simply because of that. More gallery space or even the chance to win contests would not make me any more likely to support RP. It would be cool to have critiques from "professionals", but again that wouldn't be the primary reason for me to support the site. I haven't been able to participate as much this year as in the past, but I still feel like I learn something new here just about every time I login. That's more than I can say for a lot of my books.

My check will be in the mail tomorrow - honest!

Jeanie

[roger_ele]

I have not responded because i have been luke warm on this ...

For me, a contest would be fun - but not for professional reasons - my customers judge me on my samples and my work, not awards. It would just be fun from a test-myself-competetive-spirit sort of way. Paying to be able to compete would only serve to remind me to be on a schedule with contributions. Which leads to a related idea;

Forget sponsors for contests, if there are sponsors, give them add space on the site - if members want to buy a 'Thank you Retouch pro' ad - or solicit work in the way of paid assisance or outsourcing - or solicit a training CD, let them (maybe a can of worms - but with all of the free resources on this site only a very extra special 'above and beyond the call' kind of effort would be rewarded with sales)

Have contests that are fund raisers ... half of the fee is the prize, the other half goes to the site. Three levels of expertise - Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. After winning Beginner three times the winner is no longer able to compete in Beginners and competes in Intermediate (or Advanced if they want to ...?) ... anyway, you get the idea. Any member can enter, all members vote and include comments as they wish. These votes determine the vote - one vote per member. This could be like the Gallery on steroids

I get the sense that part of the reason for this conversation at this time is the nebulas fundraising/needs relationship that this site communicates to it's members. Would it be possible to post a simple accounting so that members could see when there is a need? There has to be a format that is respectful of Doug and the members and is politically site/attitude appropriate.

I havn't looked so this may allready be in place, but could the archive's be sold on a CD for those that would like to pay for the convenience?

Hope this helps some,
Roger

[Doug Nelson]

I don't know about you guys, but I still occasionally harbor ambitions for RP becoming the next ebay or google (at least of retouching). A sustenance-only plan for funding will never allow for any sort of growth, let alone the huge, own-the-photoshop-world growth I feel we're capable of.

I fantasize about an actual working budget, where maybe a contract programmer could be hired to finally work some kinks out, or maybe even add some functionality. Maybe buying some original articles, or even developing some sort of teaching plan with actual classes.

But then again, maybe growth is the last thing members want.

As for the off-topic suggestions, they're appreciated, but we can't be both a floor wax and a dessert topping.

[Peter Booth]

Although I seldom get to read this site through pressure of my "proper job" (Plumbing ) Yack!!and other commitments I do really enjoy and feel priviliged to be a member here and have received lots of great ideas from the really nice folks on this site.I've just picked up that there is a book available on retouching so I am very interested in purchasing this item and I have made small contributions in the past so will do so at this point in time also, maybe with my payment for the book? Is it a cd or a "proper" book Doug

[Vikki]

I have no idea what you mean by this:

As for the off-topic suggestions, they're appreciated, but we can't be both a floor wax and a dessert topping.

You did want participation, right?

I think everyone visits here for different reasons. Maybe a poll would be helpful. "What is your main purpose for visiting?". Although you may envision RetouchPro one way, it might be perceived in a different way by the members.

...I still occasionally harbor ambitions for RP becoming the next ebay or google (at least of retouching).

Just my opinion, but in order for RetouchPro to be a mega site, some things need to be addressed.
More participation, and membership by working professionals in the field. Some of the members may be professionals, but what credentials do those who post tutorials and such, have?
Advertising from established company's should be a major contribution to the budget. I don't mind advertising if it's related to the field, and for something I could use. Just about every good site uses advertising, and it could be helpful for newcomers, who are looking for the right tools and products. Advertising from major companies such as Adobe could also be seen as an endorsement. Have you approached any companies?
More challenges that are "real" world challenges, in the sense of what working professionals are paid to do.
The big one: I'm going to get flamed for this, but get rid of the "art" stuff. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with restoration or retouching, and it's diluting the site. In your own words "

we can't be both a floor wax and a dessert topping."

[BonnieN]

The reason I hadn't replied was because I am still so new to the site that I didn't feel my input would mean to much but then again I don't want Doug to feel like I don't have any interest in what happens. Like so many others here I have learned so much since I've been a member here. I have purchased almost every Photoshop CS book I could find plus Katrin's 2nd edition. As far as contests go...I am still so new to PS I doubt if I would enter any contests because I don't feel I am even close to being as good as so many others here. I feel about like what W. Rose said about it. But I did think roger_ele's idea about the different levels was good. Then after the contest everyone can post how they created their entry. That way we can still learn from all levels. A beginner might have a trick or two an advanced persons doesn't know.

To me, if there is going to be a membership there has to be an area non-members don't have access to. There has to be something the members are getting to do or see that makes non-members want to join. At least that is how I am. If I see a website with fantastic tutorials and I want to learn how to do that same thing and the only way I can learn how to do it is by joining....then I join.

BonnieN

[G. Couch]

Originally Posted by Vikki

.
The big one: I'm going to get flamed for this, but get rid of the "art" stuff. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with restoration or retouching, and it's diluting the site. In your own words "

Oddly enough, I tend to agree with what Vikki said (oddly, considering that art is what I went to college for and what I spend an inordinate amount of my free time doing...when not mountain biking! ). Seriously, if the goal is to build the site into an "ebay" for photo work, I would think that streamlining things would be a wise idea, as well as finding new avenues for funding...maybe RetouchPro needs to publish a book... "The Best of RetouchPRo" or something along those lines.

[Doug Nelson]

If we were any more streamlined we wouldn't exist at all

And publishing anything done for RP would be a legal nightmare since I've been so meticulous about maintaining users' copyrights.

I don't think the answer to growth is amputation. Also, growth for its own sake isn't my goal. My goal is to let RP offer services worth something, not spin off products.

It's not like RP is unknown. I think there's a tendency to think of RP as the 20-30 people that post frequently in the forums, but it's really the 30000+ people that stop by every month without posting (or even registering).

[T Paul]

Doug,

Sorry I didn’t reply sooner, but I have been out of town. I really like the sponsorship idea.

Cost: This is a tough one. You don’t want to make it too high. My suggestion is anywhere from $10-20 a year. I belong to a couple of digital photo sites whose annual fees are under $20. $10 will probably give you more sponsors though. That’s an extremely fair price for the extra storage space and contest rights.

Monthly Contests: This is a great idea! I think it will entice many as this ups the challenge level. A few questions though: Who will be the judge(s)? Will the judges change from month to month? Will the authors of the entries be known or unknown?

Another idea along the contest lines is to occasionally hold a compete for cash or prizes contest. You could charge for each entry, like $5.00 per photo or something along those lines. Bragging rights for winning a monthly contest is nice, but the occasional prize makes it even sweeter. This contest could be open to all members (not just sponsors) since you pay per entry. You would probably need to somehow fix it so that the authors of the entries would remain unknown to make the judging fair. This is true for the regular monthly contests as well.

Additional Gallery Space: 5Mb - 10Mb sounds good.

There are also several good ideas mention throughout this thread....