[Iconogenic]

Dear members,

Firstly, I like this website a lot

However, maybe it sounds strange, I would like to get rid of this:

I am really surprised about two things going on in our "Classifieds" section: 1) the uncontrolled usage of term "hi-end retouching", and 2) the weirdest price expectations of some clients in need for that very "hi-end" retouching for "fashion, editorial and advertising".

I know this is a free forum and everything, but it would be really nice towards professionals here when a potential client clearly lets know what he wants: a blur over the image for $5, or a "hi-end" stuff. Because, you know, you can't have both at the same time. It's fine to look for budget work, but .. why say "hi-end" and expect fashion quality without being able to pay for it?

Oh I'm bored today, never mind me

[Rhasval]

Some how you are right.
I think that such clients are trying to get good starting retouchers but that still do not have enough experience to demand more money for his work. They want to take advantage of that situation and try to have good staff almost for free.

[Benny Profane]

Dude, you should see some ads on Craigslist in NY, especially from photographers.. Hell, you should see what some studios want out of employees for a lower middle class wage.

[jadams007]

benny, I know what you're talking about. One of my former clients wanted me to lower my prices to $8 per hour. I said no thankyou. that was that. I thought I was already cheap, but dang, that's insulting.

[jadams007]

Iconogenic, I'd like to know how high end retouching is define. I always try to keep people realistic, so does that mean they want plaster faces or what?

[Ant]

Originally Posted by jadams007

Iconogenic, I'd like to know how high end retouching is define. I always try to keep people realistic, so does that mean they want plaster faces or what?

Look around. Does your work look like this? http://www.jedroot.com/photogr/mt/th...e-0405-two.htm

http://levelvodka.com/content/_level...LemonPrint.pdf

it's the whole package. pro model, pro photographer (not just someone who gets paid to shoot), pro stylist, assistant, hairstylist, makeup, pro equipment. not plastic. done for high end clients. done perfect. might be a billboard.

the term high end is thrown around too much. you aren't retouching a ceo or a highschool senior no matter how it's done.

[jadams007]

I noticed it tends to be mentioned for model or fashion photography the most, not portrait and weddings. My experience is in portrait and weddings, I'm not quite a senior retoucher yet, but my clients are very satisfied with my work. I'm just trying to figure out when I consider myself a highend retoucher because it seems photographers are looking for that type of retoucher more often or maybe they just abuse the term.

[Ant]

Originally Posted by jadams007

I noticed it tends to be mentioned for model or fashion photography the most, not portrait and weddings. My experience is in portrait and weddings, I'm not quite a senior retoucher yet, but my clients are very satisfied with my work. I'm just trying to figure out when I consider myself a highend retoucher because it seems photographers are looking for that type of retoucher more often or maybe they just abuse the term.

Yeah, photographers tend to gravitate towards that term because only the best is good enough for their photos...., but they may also be trying to say "hey, don't blur my shit, I don't want that". A lot of photographers are trying to take their photographs to the next level and "it must be because Meisel has great retouchers that his work looks so good" - not always true. With the prevalence of digital and photographers being their own lab (process, color correct, etc) and them having limited or poor experience in that dept on their own, they want it looking just right even though they don't know what that might be. In your example: 1. Not top photography, light, exposure, model. 2. she's RED RED. Little things go a long way. 2 points of magenta and a point of cyan go a long long way. 3. she may have less blemishes and eye bags, but her shadows are still heavy and also very red. there is no detail in the blacks (maybe in the large version there is, but showing that to someone isn't going to get you anywhere).

High end is not working for wedding photographers or most consumer portrait work. Sure, you want them to look less... more like themselves on a really good day, but in the end, you are polishing a turd, not refining a definitive idea or look where it's as good as it's going to get from the get go.

You want to get work as a high end retoucher, show high end work. Work on the best photographs (or make them). Show compositing, perfect color, enhanced everything. Not fake. This is an industry that has been behind the scenes since the advent of photography and the work should stay unnoticed. High end doesn't look obviously retouched and isn't removing zits from a bride. Nobody pays for that. You have to show that you can do what others can't and that you know what something good looks like. this is one of the biggest problems with photography in general. Everyone has a computer, Photoshop, a digital camera, lights, can get friends to model for them, etc. How many can make real money though?

People who utilize high end retouching see more than you do, more than the average joe, more than they should sometimes. Refine your eye first. Get a good background in Photography, input, output, etc. all aspects. Compare your work with what is at the high end, even weddings. What differs. When you see it and are critical you'll know.

[jadams007]

ant, its quite obvious you are very skilled and knowledgeable, i appreciate the input. I certainly like the funny analogies, ie, polish a turd. I appreciate honest critique too. Just looking through my portfolio, it could take me some time to evolve into a high end retoucher. I still think people misuse the term way too much, ie the image too red - client really liked it. to each their own, right?

[cricket1961]

Interesting stuff. I would love to post about it, but ironicaly I did last night on my blog without knowing about this thread. So instead I will just point people towards it.

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/blo...ier-right.html

Chris

[Iconogenic]

Thank you for your input, guys! I've always been thinking, the the only thing worse than a nonpaying client is an uneducated client. Understanding and appreciation of quality is what makes our industry better.