Questions about retouching jobs in NYC

[kevin thompson]

These questions are directed more toward members working in NYC. I am interested in a retouching job in the city but I am having a hard time figuring out the type of job and how much to ask for.

I have been working for a newspaper in NJ for over 20 years. 10 of those have been photo retouching for newsprint and glossy. The other 10 is a mix of that and ad design.

I make 43k now and cannot see me going much higher here, The newspaper business is hurting and I am told I already make to much.

I do not have a 4 year degree in art or loads of freelance experience. My resume is not extensive. I have been loyal to one company for a long time. I also do not have an extensive portfolio because most of the pictures I work on are shot by non caring photographers. Or I am fixing bad PDF photos sent in from agencies. Or I am dealing with photos from sales people that are pre-screened or taken off the web. I have the technique to fix and/or improve anything from very poor to high-end photos but I do not know if that is enough to make any more than what I get now.

Sending a resume to all the shops I can get an address to doesn't seem like it will work. Knowing someone would help but I am 2 hours away by train and cannot find anyone to help. Is applying to places on line my only option?

What is the difference between ad-agencies, magazines and high-end shops? Do all of them do the same type of photos and the time expected to do them is different?

Even with 10 years of experience I am not sure I can put 45 or 50k as a salary requirement and get any interviews. I need at least that to cover other expenses. What is stopping companies from just hiring kids out of school for 35k and training them to be what they want. Just how valuable is experience?

Any opinions are appreciated?

[pixelzombie]

experience is a must to be even considered for an interview, most places will give you a test and will base their hiring decision on how well you do...

[Ant]

Kevin,

Retouching in the city pays much more. I wouldn't worry about making less than you are currently, at least not for long. Put together a website of your best work. Apply for Junior Retoucher positions. Have an 11x14 portfolio of perfect prints ready to bring to the interview. Be prepared to take a test. Answer craigslist ads, check with creative employment agencies about contract work. The kind of retouching work in the city is ads and editorial fashion and beauty. There is plenty to go around and the range of what type of work is as vast. I'd suggest looking at a pre-press operation and/or a lab that offers in-house retouching to get a foot in. Experience is valued, but the work is the most important. Kids out of school generally can't do squat, but many retouchers 'come up' by learning from the ground. In a few years, they end up making money.

[BodegaGo]

i spent alot of money on printing up a fancy portfolio, $400 give or take, and ended up getting alot more work out of posting before/after rollovers and just emailing a link with a resume. or at least more callbacks for testing, which eventually led to more work

in the end, like the others have mentioned, it'll come down to how you deal with your test image. employers can see everything they need to know about you from that

[Benny Profane]

Well, I may surprise some here with this advice, but you should contact Quad Graphics about a position there - it would be a perfect next step for you, because you'll start seeing a lot of new work that a newspaper environment just doesn't give you. They do pre press for a lot of magazines, and some surprisingly high end retouching work for Conde Nast and Travel and Leisure, among others. You won't get paid a lot, but enough, and you'll learn a lot if you look at it as a training ground. If Quad doesn't want you, find a business that just does a lot of different kinds of retouching - don't limit yourself to one "genre". Beauty, cosmetics, still lifes, illustrations, grab it all and learn.
In your free time, get a portfolio together by finding only high quality images for before and after examples. A printed book can contain images lacking "permission" from the source, but, be careful, don't use the images or display them in any other way. I suppose a lawyer would advise that this isn't safe, which is probably true, but it seems to be Kosher among the people in the biz.
After a year or two, start looking around the higher end houses. And remember, when approaching a problem - nothing is impossible. If you can't figure it out, somebody else will.

[pixelzombie]

we used to do some of the conde nast work till AGT outbid all of us....did Quad buy AGT or did they bid even lower to get some of that work?

[Benny Profane]

They bid low, low, low. They give away the prepress cheap to get the printing, but, in this case, they didn't even get the printing. And now printing is super competitive with a lot of overcapacity. Tough biz. But Quad does it lean and mean.

[kevin thompson]

Thanks for the answers people!

A couple of questions though:

What is a good number of examples to have in a portfolio for an interview or on the web? Having more doesn't mean better right? What about a CD or thumb drive to show the layered steps you did?

Everyone menchoned a test image. Is there a spacific type you are usually faced with or does it vary depending on the place?

Finding high quality images for before and after examples is not easy. I suppose you have to do the best you can with what you can find.

[BodegaGo]

IMO a perfect portfolio would include skin, hair, and product example. one of each would be fine

layered files are unnecessary, the end result will show if you did things the right way or not

test image would depend on the place, either the same nightmare image they give everyone to see how you handle it, or a sample of whatever they're working on at the moment to see if they can't get some free work out of ya

[BodegaGo]

oh yeah, and a composite image is good to have too

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by BodegaGo

whatever they're working on at the moment to see if they can't get some free work out of ya

Heh. Been there. Got the job, though.

[BodegaGo]

yeah, not much you can do about it. or at least i never have, it's the tricky sort of thing where you're like "should i ask to get paid for this test? or am i just happy for the opportunity?" only once out of 20 odd tests did anyone ever offer up front to pay me for the 3-4 hour test

[Paul Cooper]

Unfortunately high-end retouching studios rarely (if ever) pay for tests...
P

[eraanexact]

I'm looking to move to NYC in August, and I was wondering this very same thing. I have nine years experience working at high-end retouching studios in Detroit and Atlanta, but I've found the biggest hurdle so far is simply me not being in New York yet. I see ads on craigslist, for example, that I believe would be far far easier to apply for if the hiring party didn't see that I currently live in Atlanta. I'm sure the higher end shops and agencies up there must get tons of resumés from out-of-towners all the time.

Have any of you local to NY found that retouchers coming in with 5-10 years experience in other markets get passed over at all when applying for jobs?

[boynamedsue]

Originally Posted by eraanexact

I'm looking to move to NYC in August, and I was wondering this very same thing. I have nine years experience working at high-end retouching studios in Detroit and Atlanta, but I've found the biggest hurdle so far is simply me not being in New York yet. I see ads on craigslist, for example, that I believe would be far far easier to apply for if the hiring party didn't see that I currently live in Atlanta. I'm sure the higher end shops and agencies up there must get tons of resumés from out-of-towners all the time.

Have any of you local to NY found that retouchers coming in with 5-10 years experience in other markets get passed over at all when applying for jobs?

Hey,

I recently moved up to NYC from the south where i had 4 years retouching experience and did a few things here but i still haven't found anything to root myself down with. It's been tough but i think that there are a lot of people up here trying to retouch for houses and very little positions relatively speaking. So yeah i am one person who moved from the south with experience who feels like the market is passing me over. i guess persistence is the answer.

[Amanda_Lauren]

Originally Posted by kevin thompson

Thanks for the answers people!

A couple of questions though:

What is a good number of examples to have in a portfolio for an interview or on the web? Having more doesn't mean better right? What about a CD or thumb drive to show the layered steps you did?

Everyone menchoned a test image. Is there a spacific type you are usually faced with or does it vary depending on the place?

Finding high quality images for before and after examples is not easy. I suppose you have to do the best you can with what you can find.

Hi Kevin-
Up until a month ago I was an employee at Quad Graphics. Great company. Benny is right on this one when starting out Pre-press houses are the way to go. You get a taste of everything. But they aren't expecting high end work either, they have 24-48 hour turn arounds. I went through a temp agency unintentionally called Career Blazers. Quad is merging with World Color right now, so I do not believe they are hiring at the moment. The merge will be more complete in July I believe. But Career Blazers and other creative agencies alike are great to help get a job. Other pre-press houses are Donnelly and Hearst for future reference.

Networking is great. Business cards. Portfolio on the web, is easier than sending PDFs via email simply because certain email hosts have limits on how much you can send through their email service. Craigs list is great. Linkedin, Monster, and Career Builder. There is no specific formula, its hard work to get a job in this industry, but these tools help.

To answer your specific questions:
In my opinion, I would say 5-10 images is a good place to start to show what you can do, a variety. and yes sometimes less is more, it depends what you have. What I can't show in my work, I use in words with my cover letter.

I have never brought a cd or flash drive with me to an interview to show layers, that's what the test is for, to show your work flow.

Tests are standard. I have interviewed everywhere from places like Box to Quad, all want tests. They usually give you something on the extreme end, one gave me a photo of Natalie Portman with markups and color adjustments and another place gave me a certain amount of images to touch up in a certain time (that was for a restoration place) and another gave me small portions of images and had specific instructions for what to do to each image. They want to see your thought process and work flow.

To find high quality images, I have been asking my artist friends to have a photo trade off. And some artists on retouchpro.com are happy to share their high quality images for you to retouch, as long as credit is given where it is needed on both ends.

I've been in your shoes, I feel your pain. I hope this helps. Think outside the box is my philosophy. Good luck.

Salut,
Amanda Lauren

[RozoNYC]

Hi Kevin,

I've just moved from NYC after almost 13 years there, 10 as a retoucher and it always has been a struggle for me since I was both new to NYC and new to the industry. I was also surprised that most jobs were only freelance (long term if you're lucky) without benefits. It did get easier the more I worked because I made more contacts and kept adding to the portfolio.

I've tried "creative" temp agencies - Aquent, Artisan, Update Graphics, 24/Seven, CTI - which were great because they had the connections with the ad agencies which could provide full-time staff positions, but I couldn't get work from them until I had a good portfolio. I got great images by working for a high-end commercial photographer - insane person, but learned so much and got great images for the book. You can try Craigslist (both "Jobs" and "Gigs") or contact photographers directly (LeBook is a great source for high-end photographers and retouching houses). And as mentioned by others, you can try bartering your retouching for photo usage from photographers or even stylists, make-up artists, and others. If nothing else, you could make some new connections - it really gets easier the move people you know! I've found the best place to create a simple but FREE web portfolio is Behance.net (http://www.behance.net).

And of course you can try cold-calling retouching/pre-press/printing shops directly - you never know what can happen. I got a 6month FT freelance gig from cold-calling retouching houses from the phone book! LOL

Much luck to you! Never give up - there is always a way.

RozoNYC