[Enkay]

Originally Posted by BillFrey

I didn't accuse you of using some else's retouching work.
I said that photo is not yours to use.

And you know that because you own the royalties to that picture right?

[BillFrey]

I don't have to own the rights to it to know that it's not yours.

Need I have to show you the uncropped one to prove it here?

[Enkay]

Originally Posted by BillFrey

I don't have to own the rights to it to know that it's not yours.

Need I have to show you the uncropped one to prove it here?

Whatever makes you happy and feel better.

[BillFrey]

Listen child,

You're acting like a fool. You made a mistake in using another's photograph.
Get over yourself.

[Enkay]

Originally Posted by BillFrey

Listen child,

You're acting like a fool. You made a mistake in using another's photograph.
Get over yourself.

Yes old man. But that was not my point at all. I didn't even think about my website when I posted here.

This thread is about bashing someone's work.

My point are that it's better to focus on improving ourselves rather than bashing others we consider to be below us and that it's a free market.

If you want to go on a personal vendetta against me, enjoy yourself. I do not take credit for the photograph, I take credit for the retouches.

[Alison]

Hi Enkay,

I think Bill means the copyright (or non) to the original image.

[Alison]

Hi Amy,

You might want to register yourself HERE.

[BillFrey]

That's right, Alison.

Enkay, you can't use someone else's photograph and use it on your website to show your retouching. It's against the copyright law. It's bad form in the photography/retouching worlds and marks your site as unprofessional.

If you want to go on a personal vendetta against me, enjoy yourself. I do not take credit for the photograph, I take credit for the retouches.

There is no vendetta, and I'm not putting down your work. You have much to learn, but you'll get there as long as you start listening and learning and stop being so defensive.

Perhaps you don't intend to come off as confrontational, but that's how I'm reading you and others are too.

[Enkay]

Originally Posted by Alison

Hi Enkay,

I think Bill means the copyright (or non) to the original image.

Bill's point is that I replied what I did in this thread because I'm defensive about this one picture that's on my site. I find that insulting because I made valid points and my website has nothing to do with it.

I'm against bashing the work of others even when you consider it to be crap and I also believe in a free market.

The picture he's refering to is wildly used all over the internet in tutorials. I agree it's not the best idea to use it on my website but I figured it wouldn't hurt much as the website is not launched and I'm not announcing it and I didn't really expect anyone to go on it except me.

Maybe we should take down all the tutorial websites too? They're surely making more money than I am with that picture.

EDIT: I actually took down links to my website as I don't want people to look at an unfinished product. I wasn't even aware people were looking at it.

[Alison]

Originally Posted by Enkay

Bill's point is that I replied what I did in this thread because I'm defensive about this one picture that's on my site. I find that insulting because I made valid points and my website has nothing to do with it.

I'm against bashing the work of others even when you consider it to be crap and I also believe in a free market.

The picture he's refering to is wildly used all over the internet in tutorials. I agree it's not the best idea to use it on my website but I figured it wouldn't hurt much as the website is not launched and I'm not announcing it and I didn't really expect anyone to go on it except me.

Maybe we should take down all the tutorial websites too? They're surely making more money than I am with that picture.

Hi Enkay,

I agree with a lot that you have said, I also agree with a lot that Amy has said.

We all have to start somewhere and then we learn some more and improve our techniques. If people want to pay cash to the other person for his/her work, that is fine by me - and yes, I believe in a free market as well.

The image on your site is a whole other matter. Just because it is on loads of sites on the web, doesn't make it a free for all. The image may not have any copyright to it at all, it may be worth investigating though, to see if it has.

The person from the original post is not false advertising, because I haven't seen a definite meaning to the words 'retouch', 'professionals' etc., Everyone has a different definition and standard that they aspire to, and it is not for me or anyone else to try and determine what meaning others associate with those words.

[Swampy]

Enkay,
I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and the original discussion was about the work on the web site that Amy linked to. I think too that the consensus of opinion, thus far, is that the work is amature stuff. That would be fine if the guy/gal was here in RetouchPRO seeking to improve, but he/she has set up a web site and is attempting to sell it. When you sell your work you are considered a professional, but I think most of us agree that he/she has done professional work.

I cannot tell you the times I have "amazed" my friends and family by removing a blemish or fixing wrinkles. But I'm not selling my stuff, 'cause I know I'm not very good at it and would be cheathing them if I did. Sure they love it, but they don't have a trained eye. It's just magic to them.

Here in RetouchPRO we see retouch work daily. We watch and learn. We follow the advise and critiques of those better than us. If you come here with thin skin, and feel people are bashing someone's work (I've been here three years and have never seen it) you need to understand that THAT is not what we do here. Most of us "call 'em like we see 'em" without animosity. We just hope to help others improve. Granted, the person responsible for the linked web site is not here to learn, but that shouldn't stop any of us from being able to critique his/her work.

[Enkay]

Originally Posted by Alison

Hi Enkay,

I agree with a lot that you have said, I also agree with a lot that Amy has said.

We all have to start somewhere and then we learn some more and improve our techniques. If people want to pay cash to the other person for his/her work, that is fine by me - and yes, I believe in a free market as well.

The image on your site is a whole other matter. Just because it is on loads of sites on the web, doesn't make it a free for all. The image may not have any copyright to it at all, it may be worth investigating though, to see if it has.

The person from the original post is not false advertising, because I haven't seen a definite meaning to the words 'retouch', 'professionals' etc., Everyone has a different definition and standard that they aspire to, and it is not for me or anyone else to try and determine what meaning others associate with those words.

That's what I'm trying to say. I don't know why Bill is trying to make this about me and this image on my site. I think he's just angry.

I already said it's probably not the best idea to use it and have taken down links to my site as I didn't know people were actually looking at it. I just needed a place holder for a website that's not yet launched or in any way finished.

[Enkay]

Originally Posted by Swampy

Enkay,
I think everyone is entitled to an opinion and the original discussion was about the work on the web site that Amy linked to. I think too that the consensus of opinion, thus far, is that the work is amature stuff. That would be fine if the guy/gal was here in RetouchPRO seeking to improve, but he/she has set up a web site and is attempting to sell it. When you sell your work you are considered a professional, but I think most of us agree that he/she has done professional work.

I cannot tell you the times I have "amazed" my friends and family by removing a blemish or fixing wrinkles. But I'm not selling my stuff, 'cause I know I'm not very good at it and would be cheathing them if I did. Sure they love it, but they don't have a trained eye. It's just magic to them.

Here in RetouchPRO we see retouch work daily. We watch and learn. We follow the advise and critiques of those better than us. If you come here with thin skin, and feel people are bashing someone's work (I've been here three years and have never seen it) you need to understand that THAT is not what we do here. Most of us "call 'em like we see 'em" without animosity. We just hope to help others improve. Granted, the person responsible for the linked web site is not here to learn, but that shouldn't stop any of us from being able to critique his/her work.

The way I see it, not everyone is looking to pay big amounts of money, and not everyone wants retouches that could be featured in GQ. There's different segments of market and that's fine by me.

Pepsi is bottling tap water and making millions with it. There are laws, but in the end you're pretty much allowed to sell whatever you want. The market will decide if they want your product or not. If they do, who are we to judge.

I wouldn't consider this a critique of his work as I havent seen any constructive critisism so far.

I will now stick to technique sections and let you guys to your fun bashing and internet post wars.

[Swampy]

One of my friends over on the NAPP board is a retoucher who has won awards for his work. The guy is really good. Another NAPP member ran across a web site in India that was using one of his award winning retouches as an example on their site. My friend had copyright notices all over his work and the Indian site displayed his work complete with the copyright notice! Now that's pretty gutsy. And the irony is the Indian site had a copyright notice at the bottom of their opening page. Apparently they don't know what copyright means.

[BillFrey]

"I think he's just angry."

lol, ok. I'm just an angry old person and you should use that photo all you want because, hey, Bill's an angry guy.