making money

zganie · #1 02-27-2008, 05:24 AM

I think not only me But many others are curious if people on here are actually making money and/or a living not just one or two people but in general.
Dataflow mentioned I asked the same question in a lot of forums sorry maybe I went about it the wrong way The question is not directed at any one individual.But it seems to me that people would want to know since a lot of time and effort goes into learning this skill,plus if your going to spend money putting up a webpage and time and energy promoting yourself.Dont you think its a good idea to get feed back from people in the business?
just my opinion
Zganie

Ant · #2 02-27-2008, 11:46 AM

I make a nice living manipulating photos.

If you want to make a living doing this, you have to be in the right market as well as have all the necessary skills and the eye. There are a billion people with Photoshop, few make a living doing it. Most of the magazines, ad agencies, etc are in the big cities. Someone has to have the budget to pay you. "Pretty good" doesn't cut it. there are quite a number of members on this board who make a living retouching. The majority however (thousands?) are fooling themselves greatly. Like anything, you have to be good to get paid and you have to be honest with yourself. Does your stuff look like that billboard, magazine ad, point of purchase display? I mean is it that good? No? Well then there you go. Look at how many people call themselves a photographer and have websites and everything. There are an equal number or more who are trying to make a living messing with photos. Doesn't mean they ever will.

a lot of time and effort goes into learning this skill

Big understatement, especially in regards to this board's members. Most here think a few hours spent on one image is crazy. Try 60. Some quit learning early on. Look at those people who have been working with Photoshop for 10 years and still suck. There is only so much you can learn from poor teachers with limited information or from books or tutorials. You need to get your hands dirty working somewhere where things are done right and the nitpicking is endless. This is a business of perfection, invisibility, refinement, communication of ideas, art, commerce, science, color theory, input, output, processing, lighting, capture, anatomy....the list goes on and on, but at the same time it's a 'pixel monkey' job as well (do what you're told, work well with others, respect deadlines, do what it takes, good enough never flies, provide more than what's asked for). It's a collaborative effort, a business of interpretation, thick skin, big egos, beaten down egos, client pleasing, client wowing, subjectivity, and style.

Godmother · #3 02-27-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant

I make a nice living manipulating photos.

If you want to make a living doing this, you have to be in the right market as well as have all the necessary skills and the eye. There are a billion people with Photoshop, few make a living doing it. Most of the magazines, ad agencies, etc are in the big cities. Someone has to have the budget to pay you. "Pretty good" doesn't cut it. there are quite a number of members on this board who make a living retouching. The majority however (thousands?) are fooling themselves greatly. Like anything, you have to be good to get paid and you have to be honest with yourself. Does your stuff look like that billboard, magazine ad, point of purchase display? I mean is it that good? No? Well then there you go. Look at how many people call themselves a photographer and have websites and everything. There are an equal number or more who are trying to make a living messing with photos. Doesn't mean they ever will.

a lot of time and effort goes into learning this skill

Big understatement, especially in regards to this board's members. Most here think a few hours spent on one image is crazy. Try 60. Some quit learning early on. Look at those people who have been working with Photoshop for 10 years and still suck. There is only so much you can learn from poor teachers with limited information or from books or tutorials. You need to get your hands dirty working somewhere where things are done right and the nitpicking is endless. This is a business of perfection, invisibility, refinement, communication of ideas, art, commerce, science, color theory, input, output, processing, lighting, capture, anatomy....the list goes on and on, but at the same time it's a 'pixel monkey' job as well (do what you're told, work well with others, respect deadlines, do what it takes, good enough never flies, provide more than what's asked for). It's a collaborative effort, a business of interpretation, thick skin, big egos, beaten down egos, client pleasing, client wowing, subjectivity, and style.

You're getting nicer by the minute

smak · #4 02-27-2008, 05:01 PM

Hey, you'd be cranky too if you just spent 60 hours working on an image of the Olson twins.

Benny Profane · #5 02-27-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant

Most here think a few hours spent on one image is crazy. Try 60. Some quit learning early on. Look at those people who have been working with Photoshop for 10 years and still suck. There is only so much you can learn from poor teachers with limited information or from books or tutorials. You need to get your hands dirty working somewhere where things are done right and the nitpicking is endless. This is a business of perfection, invisibility, refinement, communication of ideas, art, commerce, science, color theory, input, output, processing, lighting, capture, anatomy....the list goes on and on, but at the same time it's a 'pixel monkey' job as well (do what you're told, work well with others, respect deadlines, do what it takes, good enough never flies, provide more than what's asked for). It's a collaborative effort, a business of interpretation, thick skin, big egos, beaten down egos, client pleasing, client wowing, subjectivity, and style.

werd, Antman.

skydog · #6 02-27-2008, 08:14 PM

Making money is one thing...making a living is another. For those of you that make a living (car, insurance, family, house) my hat is off to you...Personally I feel you not only have to be good, but you need to be able to market and promote your talent.

zganie · #7 02-28-2008, 05:50 AM

Thanks Ant Best comment anyones ever made on here.Its the reason I was asking people who had put up websites if they were making money.

Also the reason for the questions are because,I give a seminar ever week on photography to students,its about the photography business all aspects not just photography but retouching prepress and photography etc..
we have people come and talk I try to dig up info and I like to get the info from someone who knows
sorry if this is long but as was stated its a lot of training and certain skills are needed NO USE KIDDING YOURSELF
thanks again and anyone else please give an opinion
ZGANIE

Ant · #8 02-28-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydog

Making money is one thing...making a living is another. For those of you that make a living (car, insurance, family, house) my hat is off to you...Personally I feel you not only have to be good, but you need to be able to market and promote your talent.

no, you have to be good and not live in south carolina...

shellby · #9 02-28-2008, 06:18 AM

Yes I work from home as a high end beauty and fashion retoucher in the UK. I also go up to London to work in studios at times.

BodegaGo · #10 02-28-2008, 07:33 AM

i'm not particularly good at it (not horrible, mind you, but i just know many other people that are better than i), but i make a living retouching high-end stuff, not rockstar money but money enough to support myself in NYC, and even support my own small business on the side

i like to think that speed counts as well, and not just quality. i mean, as long as you're talking about making money, and not the "art" and the "craft" bit of the business

Markzebra · #11 02-28-2008, 08:45 AM

Yes I also make a living as freelance retoucher in London. So it is possible don't worry about it! Like Ant said you may have to move somewhere near a big city, but that ain't always going to be the case: more and more clients are able to give your their FTP details and you can work from home.

There are many different levels of work available too, some of it requiring high end skills, some of it more basic. I think what makes the difference between those that succeed and those that don't are ..

1 Talent, already mentioned
2 Luck - getting in at the right place, at the right time. Theres a LOT of people on the circuit without a lot of Point 1, but have managed to land a trainee role somewhere and been helped along the way. Which bring us to ...
3 Persistence and the desire and openness to learn. Its always a mistake to think you've cracked it. And generally a mistake to try kicking those that are trying their first steps, cause one day they will come back and bite you! Certainly those who have any of point 1 at all. Who knows maybe one day their retouch of The Olson Twins may very well be better than yours!
4 Speed as mentioned in the previous post, and the ability to grasp and memorise technique

Benny Profane · #12 02-28-2008, 09:14 AM

I'm guessing that Ant is such a curmudgeon about a lot of things is that, even though he makes a much higher than average gross than most Americans on his tax return in this trade, he still has to live in (or close?) to NYC in order practice his profession. I know it bugs me. Man, if I could make this money in a place that's cheap to live and doesn't have crazy people muttering something about Michael Jackson to me on the subway, I'd be a little happier.

MatthewMarshall · #13 02-28-2008, 09:24 AM

I like ants anwsers, honest and true. I just worked on a print add, it took me 2 weeks to finalize it. Yes many many house go into touchig up. Especialy with these new 40 mega pix images now adays. I just did a billboard size add that had to be 200 dpi, back 15 years ago 50 dpi was fine. Ant is right when he said """ 'pixel monkey' job as well (do what you're told, work well with others, respect deadlines, do what it takes, good enough never flies, provide more than what's asked for""

Ant · #14 02-28-2008, 09:25 AM

I live IN Manhattan and have for 6 years as a choice. I could move to Jersey, say an hour away commuting distance and pay half or more less than I do now for rent/mortgage. I choose to live in the city for the convenience and lifestyle and I am not a fan of commuting. I do however do quite a significant percentage of my work from home for clients out of state. Yes, it sucks to pay up to 30k a year just to have a place to live, but I don't have to. That being said, I will be moving in May because I am in need of a larger space and I may move to Brooklyn, out of the city (but close-in). I do like to walk to work and have the world at my fingertips just outside my door. I'd live in the city, if I was still single, even if I only made 35k/yr.

videosean · #15 02-28-2008, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ant

a lot of time and effort goes into learning this skill

Big understatement, especially in regards to this board's members. Most here think a few hours spent on one image is crazy. Try 60.

Your whole post is everything I've always thought or felt but never experienced in a professional workplace environment. I'm not making a living messing with images and probably never will but I enjoy the hell out of it and will probably always be wanting to learn more. At the same time when most that I find seem to want to pay a rate of $10 or less per hour I wonder why I bother trying to find paid work... that gets back to location/market I suppose.