Photographer to Retoucher...Advice needed Pls!

[alliepereira]

Hey,
I'm a photographer/ Studio Manager, running a portrait studio for a large company. We use photoshop everyday for basic retouching. I am wanting to move into retouching professionally, but am lost as to where to start. Is there a course I must have under my belt? Apart from knowing photoshop inside out what other tools are used? Where do I start? What are the best agencies? Any help or advice would be very gratefully received!

Many thanks,
Allie.

[wtowle]

Hi Allie, I say this over and over when people ask. To be really great you must know how to draw. Take some figure drawing and or anatomy drawing classes. A lot of people have the basic knowledge of photoshop and then therefore think that they can retouch. But to be better then the tech's you need the drawing/painting skills. Then just beat the pavement(or internet, I should say).ha! And for that there are a lot of good threads on this site and National Association of Photoshop Professionals.

[alliepereira]

Thanks wtowle. Much appreciated. Is this what potential employers look for? Also, I'm finding it hard to get a foot in the door regarding job vacancies, so I will check out the NAPP. Thanks again.

[Benny Profane]

Why do you have to know how to draw? I draw stick people and I make a nice living at this. What are you drawing?

[jadams007]

Seems kind of backwards, but anyways. I actually started out working for Miller's Imaging, I knew bits of photoshop before i worked there. What helped me was the practice. Spending lots of time with photoshop, learning tools, what they do, how they affect the image. And learning quick keys only made it faster since most retouchers will use one hand on key board and other using stylus on a wacom tablet. Drawing helps, but I don't think its necessary. Theres tons of workshops out there and lots of online video tutorials. Getting client for your freelance business will be the hard part. Good luck!

[toan thai]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Why do you have to know how to draw? I draw stick people and I make a nice living at this. What are you drawing?

benny,

i think wtowle gave a good advice. it's not what you draw when you retouch but what you apply to retouching from learning in these art classes. i find having a background in fine arts does help me when come to retouching. hey, who says stick people isn't art

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by toan thai

benny,

i think wtowle gave a good advice. it's not what you draw when you retouch but what you apply to retouching from learning in these art classes. i find having a background in fine arts does help me when come to retouching. hey, who says stick people isn't art

Think for a second. Are you just justifying time wasted for the BFA? How does it help you? Do you render?

[toan thai]

who said you must have a degree in BFA to retouch? having some basic knowledge of drawing and painting wouldn't hurt. you said you're making a nice living but how can we verify that. where can one look at some of your work?

should we save the money and time by having our kids stay home? there are plenty of self made millionaires that didn't finish high school. they seem to make a nice living.

from my experience, having some knowledge in art helps me retouch better. isn't so wrong to let someone know the benefits from these art classes? it's great that you doing fine with retouching without knowing how to draw or paint but it's absurd that you think it wasn't a good advice

[Benny Profane]

sigh..........the amount of bad advice and misinformation on this board is hard to ignore at times. I'm outta here. Go listen to Mr. art guy and the NAPP.

[alliepereira]

I appreciate any advice from people in the industry, and understand that different takes on the matter is not a bad thing. Many thanks.

[jessibelle15]

I also started in the photography side and switched over to retouching. I do not think you need to take any drawing or painting classes to be a better retoucher. You will have to start at the bottom and work your way up just like anyone. I would put together a PDF with some of your samples of before and afters and go online and apply for every jr retouching position you can find and that you can learn from. When you go to interview they will most likely test you to figure out your skill level. In the mean time keep reading up on tutorials and practicing.

[smak]

Books, tutorials and forums related to PS. Read and study everything you can. There is a lot of PS related information on the web.

[jagerman]

Benny Profane,

I always see you making the quick comment about topics and you say that you make a nice living at retouching. But, I have never seen your work. Do you have a link?

[Noodles]

Hahaha you'll be lucky. More chance of plaiting sand!

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by jagerman

Benny Profane,

I always see you making the quick comment about topics and you say that you make a nice living at retouching. But, I have never seen your work. Do you have a link?

No. well, except for the missing one....

[vapman]

Just to let you guys know i dont draw either. And as far as i know none the retoucher colleagues i know (personally) can draw either, and these are people working for the fashion and advertising industry.
If you want to do photoart based stuff, it might be useful but for photography retouching, not at all

[vapman]

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

No. well, except for the missing one....

Now that it was mentioned, i was kinda curious to see Mr Profane's stuff too.

[toan thai]

Originally Posted by vapman

Just to let you guys know i dont draw either. And as far as i know none the retoucher colleagues i know (personally) can draw either, and these are people working for the fashion and advertising industry.
If you want to do photoart based stuff, it might be useful but for photography retouching, not at all

it can help one understand perspective better and among other things...

no one said you MUST take art classes. there is more to retouching than cloning zits. so having some art knowledge will help...as it did for me.

[vapman]

We were talking about drawing, not art classes. I believe those are very different subject matters.

[toan thai]

Originally Posted by vapman

We were talking about drawing, not art classes. I believe those are very different subject matters.

what the heck do you do in art classes? taking pictures?

the entire discussion on this thread is not about DRAWING, it's about APPLYING what you know from art courses; from drawing. APPLYING, get it?!!!!!

[Benny Profane]

Originally Posted by vapman

Now that it was mentioned, i was kinda curious to see Mr Profane's stuff too.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2406/...76d7f6.jpg?v=0

[Markzebra]

a great piece of work Benny, like the expression on his face there

[Benny Profane]

Thanks, Apeman. It's the new Neo Benny school of art that is all the rage. I'll sell it to you you for a few drinks.

[toan thai]

benny,

i admire your penmanship. your drawing skill is...well, light years ahead of your time

[vapman]

Originally Posted by toan thai

what the heck do you do in art classes? taking pictures?

the entire discussion on this thread is not about DRAWING, it's about APPLYING what you know from art courses; from drawing. APPLYING, get it?!!!!!

I don't understand two things, first this discussion started with knowing how to draw for retouching and now you say its NOT about drawing?
(not that it makes alot of difference, I still think going art classes when you really need is to learn your photoshop is just beating around the bush)
And second, please have manners when replying.
If I or anyone else wishes to share their views and experience, and then get those sort of comments back... well, I better not go wasting my time here being treated like an idiot by anyone who happens to think he or she knows best.

I personally recommend Jadams007 post in this thread. That's good advice. An experience I believe everyone in this business can relate to.

[Markzebra]

Don't feel too discouraged Vapman, I spent about 3 years in an art school life drawing, and I think thats what helps me do my job every day. Still not anywhere near as good at anatomy and proportions as I should be though :-/

[ftp-Jeff]

Here is a bit of advice....

Ignore all filters in Photoshop, NEVER EVER use the heal tool. Do not blur skin. And only use the clone tool if you have to!

Or, you could ignore all that advice and be another "smudger."

Jeff

[wtowle]

I've been reading all of your posts about my initial advice to this person trying to break in . I've been quiet , not knowing if I wanted to get back in the mix , until this mornings interview came out in the New Yorker with Pascal Dangin (world renown retoucher , owner of Box Studios in NY). His article reads that he requires his artists to take in-house anatomy and figure drawing. He is THE best around. out-

[ftp-Jeff]

It really helps if you are artistic.....

[videosean]

If you don't have some sort of understanding of anatomy then you might never be able to make alterations to someone's bone structure or waistline convincingly.

If you don't have a clue as to what 'color theory' is then you may stare at your monitor for hours trying to figure out how to fix some odd color cast instead of just knowing what the problem is and how to fix it.

Art schools won't teach you to be artistic or creative or to have vision... quite frankly I'm not sure what they teach at all. If you have skills you can definitely refine and improve them through the practice they'll give you but I think one could argue that the same can be accomplished on your own if you are dedicated enough. Perhaps they can teach you to have a thick skin if you undergo enough harsh peer reviews and that will just prepare you better for the internet and life in general really. I can't draw figures for crap but I struggled through a few figure drawing courses and think I managed to learn something from them other than I can't draw lifeforms at all... no BFA... and I don't make a living at this.